When the poker gods hate you, how do you play?

It's been a weird couple days. One day I was running really well. Cashing lots of SnGs. Absolutely OWNING HU, winning like 80% of them. Then there's today. Bad cards. Opponents who call my in position raises with crap (86o? Srsly?) and get a 579 flop. At least I figure it out and, cursing the poker gods, let go of my AA to watch from the sidelines while he cripples someone else with his miracle straight. Getting to single digit M with a big pocket pair in the BB with a steal attempt who calls my all in with 97s and flops a flush.

My gut tells me to slow down and get something solid and take down a decent pot, perhaps get my raises a little respect. My gut, of course, never sees the logic in "Hey, dummy, your losing. Stop playing." I feel like nit mode is the wrong way to go. So I don't want to totally retreat to top n% hands when I'm not really getting any because I'm effectively just bleeding blinds until M gets low and I'm pushing and praying. And losing.

So, how do you handle these, mentally and strategically. I figure a typical SnG is 100-200 hands, max. It's entirely possible to get crap for such a run, although I suppose the really bad ones have a few good hands that are just ineffectual because those are the times nobody wants to call.

I know it's just variance. I was not Poker God one day and King Donkey the next. I need to put together some kind of checklist or something so I can go over my play after and say "yeah, you didn't suck, or at least n more than normal, all the breaks just went to somebody else today."

RF

I feel the same way. 2 days ago I was cruising, yesterday was about break-even, today is horrid. Getting my in-position raises with AQs called down by J9o and flopping a straight, etc. Some people say there is no such thing as being "card dead" but I am a believer and the deck is cold for me right now. The only advice I can give is to either take a break and occupy your mind with something else and start fresh, or just keep grinding knowing that in the long run you will be up. There is a light at the end of the tunnel!

The trick is in your first paragraph. That is how it goes. Just variance man, it blows and its crazy, but thats what the best players have to overcome. You ran hot, you will run cold to blance. Things have to find their statistical blance, for every amazing session you will have a terrible one, or a protracted gradual downswing, or some way of balancing the books. Best thing for it is the step back a moment, think about that, and verify your long term winrate. Remember, its all one big game. A bit more abstract of a concept when you're not playing cash, but its still true. Single game, single day, single week/month/year results don't matter on a big enough scale if you're beating the game at a rate you find sufficient.

I am starting this post some distance from the topic, so bear with me. I have a diagnosis of bi-polar disorder, or manic depression as it used to be known. For years this caused me huge personal and emotional problems - the manic was great and productive, but the depression was bloody awful. I could see the signs of a depressive episode coming and would have all manner of strategies to deal with it until things turned up again and I could ride the joyous mania again.

This went on for years until out of the blue I had (or was given) a brilliant idea - don't focus on the depression, deal with the mania. So that's what I do - when I feel the euphoria coming on I rein it in a bit, slow down, don't overextend myself. And it works. Sure I still have BPD and still have depressions but they are manageable.

So, to poker. We tend to examine our bad runs, when our AK all in loses to AJ on AJ7 flop (me an hour ago) we examine our game, write posts here and so on. But when the same play against the same donkey brings a K on the turn we congratulate ourselves and look at the next hand. When we win a tourney it is often because our 60/40 chances have held up a few times on the trot and our steals were successful because they had junk. But because those plays paid off were they really good decisions? I know that when I make some sort of play and it works I tend to put it's success down to my superb poker ability; I then add it to my arsenal in the certain knowledge that it is a successful tactic in the long run. In reality, it worked because I got lucky once or twice.

If there is a moral to this rambling tale it is to not forget to look at how you play when you are on a winning streak - just because you win doesn't make the decisions good.

I hope things turn up for you soon, RoyalFish - at least it's only poker

The_Pup said:

I am starting this post some distance from the topic, so bear with me. I have a diagnosis of bi-polar disorder, or manic depression as it used to be known. For years this caused me huge personal and emotional problems - the manic was great and productive, but the depression was bloody awful. I could see the signs of a depressive episode coming and would have all manner of strategies to deal with it until things turned up again and I could ride the joyous mania again.

This went on for years until out of the blue I had (or was given) a brilliant idea - don't focus on the depression, deal with the mania. So that's what I do - when I feel the euphoria coming on I rein it in a bit, slow down, don't overextend myself. And it works. Sure I still have BPD and still have depressions but they are manageable.

So, to poker. We tend to examine our bad runs, when our AK all in loses to AJ on AJ7 flop (me an hour ago) we examine our game, write posts here and so on. But when the same play against the same donkey brings a K on the turn we congratulate ourselves and look at the next hand. When we win a tourney it is often because our 60/40 chances have held up a few times on the trot and our steals were successful because they had junk. But because those plays paid off were they really good decisions? I know that when I make some sort of play and it works I tend to put it's success down to my superb poker ability; I then add it to my arsenal in the certain knowledge that it is a successful tactic in the long run. In reality, it worked because I got lucky once or twice.

If there is a moral to this rambling tale it is to not forget to look at how you play when you are on a winning streak - just because you win doesn't make the decisions good.

I hope things turn up for you soon, RoyalFish - at least it's only poker

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This is what seems to happen to me which I've really started to catch on. I'll run really great, then slowly I'll start to fail, all because I'll be running good, then trying and doing new things, watching them work, then finding out the hard way that it was luck or something to that matter.

I think that is a huge weak point in most people is figuring out if what you did was actually good play or outright luck.

Also, having a HuD to me now is a absolute MUST have unless you can go about remembering the main variables you want to know about your player. With the stats I have, I can pretty much read players now, knowing what makes them fold, call, ect.

The point given is that its not always the luck/varience that is causing your bad beat, its simply you doing things that worked, but statistically doesn't in the long run.

Our minds seem to only wanna remember the very unimportant things, such as all the loses from playing AA, but hardly noticing how much more often AA has made you money than its lost.

Even if you play AA badly, it will STILL statiscally make you more money than it will lose. It will always have the highest chance of winning.

I used to struggle with this issue also, and occasionally I still do. I find myself in crazy streaks, hot, to the point of ""guilt" and actually easing up and feeling pitty for others (mistake), and cold so much that I get disgusted and at that point I forget all I've learned and play against my standards.... sounds familiar?
The correct action is to take a little break, get up, and think honestly. A quick self-diagnosis: if I still have self control and if I'm still feeling positive,,, if yes to both, I'll sit and tighten up my game. If not, I'll leave and save my chips for the next session.
If you're not honest with yourself and you do not have self control, Poker is not your game.

You don't play... Just get on your knee's and pray should sort the problem out

sharkyo01 said:

You don't play... Just get on your knee's and pray should sort the problem out

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I've found sacrificing a chicken works wayyyyy better than trying to pray.

Take a break. Might want to look at your previous hands, if you are taking a lot of 60/40 coin flips you need to tighten up. If you are losing to bigger straights, bigger full houses, set over set, runner-runner, 4 to a flush...legit bad beats then you need to take a break so you don't go on the bank roll spiral-of-death.

Yeah. i think every one has to go through this experience one time or another.
Funnily i just had such a session recently and survived...
Wat i do is i switch my mode to tight passive rather than loose passive or tight aggresive...
At begining, i used to switch to tight aggresive but had bad results, and den tried loose passive, which helped me survive the session...

Thought I'd check in with an update.

Variance has swung the other way. I'm at a bankroll peak again. Literally $1 higher than my previous max. I better post quick before I lose it. I'm running 14BB/100 over the last 2500 hands.

So, what's different.

Well, for one I switched from tournaments to cash. I was just losing too many in a row, and it got to feeling like all it took to lose was a couple hands of getting it in with the best and missing, and I'd be playing the push and pray game. I usually think of tournaments as lower variance. Buy in for $2 or $5, and you're certain not to lose more than that. Contrast that with cash games where I have 1/5 of my BR on the table right now, and could conceivably lose it all. I guess the lesson there is that cash games give you the choice of how much you want riding on a hand. Buy in for a $5 tourney and get sucked out on a couple times, and your $5 can very easily be riding on shoving Ax and hoping you connect, cuz the blinds eat you in a few more hands.

I don't have a solid explanation for this one, but I always seem to be able to play well in cash or tournaments, but I never seem to have my A game going for both at the same time. (Granted, my A game may be my D- game for some of you.)

The other thing I'm doing is multitabling. Like some have posted previously, playing just one can get really boring if you're getting crap hands. It's easy to lose focus and not pay attention, then I start paying attention to anything more interesting. TV. Surfing the web. All those things we shouldn't be doing while playing. For me, more tables is more focus. It also helps level out the variance. Like today, with pocket AA a few reraises had all the chips in the middle vs. a villain with KK. He connected on the river, and I would have felt like I was down a whole buy in if I were playing one table, but because I wasn't it felt like a much smaller hit and I easily shrugged it off.

Another thing I did was focus on one small part of the game. Play a basic TAG style, but try something new with small to mid pocket pairs. If you saw my other post, you'll know it went rather badly, but I came to understand that part of the game better than I did before. So, now I know how I want to play those. I don't think I have a perfect strategy, but I feel like I have one that at least doesn't lose me money.

I'm confident I know some deficiencies in my game now where I could push the win rate up, but at the cost of higher variance. I'll probably do that at some point, but like the pocket pair exercise, I want to focus on that and nothing else when I try to figure it out.

Anyway, thanks everyone for the support and advice. Best of luck at the tables.

RF

Go for a walk clear the head

Hope for a bit more luck later on

patience

be patient is the thing. dont play silly hands before the flop. 1 think i dont do, withdraw cash from a site im playing s&g. not saying sites are bent, but ni gine u %75 chance u go on a badbeat if u withdraw. wait until u have a good bankroll ...........joker131

I know for me I either run good or bad, no in between. When I run good, I try to play as much as possible, and when I start to run bad, I stop. If I play when I run bad, I don't play my best.

The_Pup said:

I am starting this post some distance from the topic, so bear with me. I have a diagnosis of bi-polar disorder, or manic depression as it used to be known. For years this caused me huge personal and emotional problems - the manic was great and productive, but the depression was bloody awful. I could see the signs of a depressive episode coming and would have all manner of strategies to deal with it until things turned up again and I could ride the joyous mania again.

This went on for years until out of the blue I had (or was given) a brilliant idea - don't focus on the depression, deal with the mania. So that's what I do - when I feel the euphoria coming on I rein it in a bit, slow down, don't overextend myself. And it works. Sure I still have BPD and still have depressions but they are manageable.

So, to poker. We tend to examine our bad runs, when our AK all in loses to AJ on AJ7 flop (me an hour ago) we examine our game, write posts here and so on. But when the same play against the same donkey brings a K on the turn we congratulate ourselves and look at the next hand. When we win a tourney it is often because our 60/40 chances have held up a few times on the trot and our steals were successful because they had junk. But because those plays paid off were they really good decisions? I know that when I make some sort of play and it works I tend to put it's success down to my superb poker ability; I then add it to my arsenal in the certain knowledge that it is a successful tactic in the long run. In reality, it worked because I got lucky once or twice.

If there is a moral to this rambling tale it is to not forget to look at how you play when you are on a winning streak - just because you win doesn't make the decisions good.

I hope things turn up for you soon, RoyalFish - at least it's only poker

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Pup - I had not intended to respond but I was struck by your response. I am impressed with the advice, how well your personal story ties into the subject and how insightful the entire post was.

I look forward to reading more posts by you. Welcome to CC btw!

RoyalFish said:

Thought I'd check in with an update.

I don't have a solid explanation for this one, but I always seem to be able to play well in cash or tournaments, but I never seem to have my A game going for both at the same time. (Granted, my A game may be my D- game for some of you.)

*Tournament play and cash play are two totally different animals. Because you must focus on one style while multi-tabling cash games, vs concentrating on two different styles at the same time if you play a tourney and a cash table, then it would explain why you find yourself doing better multi-tabling only 1 style.

The other thing I'm doing is multitabling. Like some have posted previously, playing just one can get really boring if you're getting crap hands. It's easy to lose focus and not pay attention, then I start paying attention to anything more interesting. TV. Surfing the web. All those things we shouldn't be doing while playing. For me, more tables is more focus. It also helps level out the variance. Like today, with pocket AA a few reraises had all the chips in the middle vs. a villain with KK. He connected on the river, and I would have felt like I was down a whole buy in if I were playing one table, but because I wasn't it felt like a much smaller hit and I easily shrugged it off.

*Exactly! I wrote an article about how to deal with tilt and mentioned this an option. This is fantastic that you have discovered this on your own and have found success with it!

Another thing I did was focus on one small part of the game. Play a basic TAG style, but try something new with small to mid pocket pairs. If you saw my other post, you'll know it went rather badly, but I came to understand that part of the game better than I did before. So, now I know how I want to play those. I don't think I have a perfect strategy, but I feel like I have one that at least doesn't lose me money.

*Another great idea. Many who read poker books and strategy articles and such will focus on implementing just one or two new techniques at a time until they feel comfortable with it before introducing new strategies or techniques or ideas. Kudos to you for applying this.

I'm confident I know some deficiencies in my game now where I could push the win rate up, but at the cost of higher variance. I'll probably do that at some point, but like the pocket pair exercise, I want to focus on that and nothing else when I try to figure it out.

Anyway, thanks everyone for the support and advice. Best of luck at the tables.

RF

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I actually don't mean playing a cash game and a tournament at the same time, though I have done that. Almost did today, thinking those long MTTs are pretty boring in the beginning, so I could let it cruise along on autopilot while I play cash. Decided to focus instead. I even turned off the movie I had just put on. I might be a slow learner, but I get there.

What I mean is that I seem to need to either play exclusively cash or exclusively tournaments, usually for a stretch of weeks or months, then when that goes south, switch back. Kinda bugs me, to be honest. I'll read something like Harrington's tourney books, and he has these crystal clear rules in his head. When I'm in this situation, I do this 70% of the time, and this other thing 30% of the time. I don't really have that going yet. I feel like I -should- and when I can, I should be able to just switch back and forth and play the "right" game in either. It's really amazing how you can "learn" NLHE in 5 minutes, and spend the next 5 realizing how much you don't know yet.

RF