When it folds to the SB and he completes

T

themosthigh

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I wanted to bring this topic up for discussion as I feel I'm leaking alot of money in this spot. Mind you I'm playing microstakes(4NL specifically).We are in the BB, action folds around to the SB who completes.

Now in my studies and notes I have these two things written down........

"Punish those who limp from the SB"
"If someone limps from the SB, that is your blind. Raise and take it!"

We all know that it's pretty f'in weak to just complete the SB. I have made it a habit lately to start going after these guys and raising it up when they complete but I just keep finding myself in crap spots.

-I raise, they call, and next thing you know I'm in a pot with station who doesn't fold to cbets.
-I raise, they call, I cbet my missed hand and get raised.
-I raise, they call, I have garbage hand and I just give up.

It's getting to the point where I'm starting to think I'm better off just raising the regular value hands I would always raise from BB and if I don't have one and they complete just taking the freeplay and checking down the pot unless I smash 2 pair or better. I find that if I just go the free play route they almost always take a stab at the flop.

So what is the profitable way to play in this spot at the micros?
Which hands should we be raising in this spot?
Which villains should we be raising?
Which ones should we just check it back against?

I'm tired of raising and throwing away money trying to take it down with a cbet on the flop when they always call. Please help.
 
WVHillbilly

WVHillbilly

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Raise ATC to 4x the bb.
cbet ~95%.
Don't be afraid to barrel.
Profit.
 
starting_at_the_bottom

starting_at_the_bottom

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4nl, if these people dont have an assignable range, and you never know where you are, is it really worth the hassle for 4pence? Just because some book says you should.....?

Check the junk and only raise good hands.

Another point to remember is that nobody at 4nl folds Ace x for 4p pre flop. If everybody else has folded then the chance is slighly higher that the sb has one.

Money at 4nl is there to be made from playing solid poker, no fancy moves or squeeze plays etc needed. I should know, I smash 4nl day in day out.
 
WVHillbilly

WVHillbilly

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We WANT them to call preflop. So we then have position and a bigger pot to win postflop. Not raising in that position is a mistake at 2nl+.
 
bz54321

bz54321

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Raise ATC to 4x the bb.
cbet ~95%.
Don't be afraid to barrel.
Profit.

This and don't stop. What you describe happens to me and then I get scared and back off. Don't back off it will work more than it fails.

At least in tourneys....... Cash games no one ever wants to fold.
 
starting_at_the_bottom

starting_at_the_bottom

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We WANT them to call preflop. So we then have position and a bigger pot to win postflop. Not raising in that position is a mistake at 2nl+.


and barreling air at somebody that doesnt fold isnt a mistake? lol
 
frigidbch

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ok i am no pro but i have found that on those limits(i play those ALOT)abc poker is king.Once you hit 25nl you can get trickier.But that is my experience.I'm sure there are others who might think differently.
My thinking is when they do try to run that play on you ,you have a great hand to "fight" back with.
 
Karkus77

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i play micro cash and although the "rulebook" states you should punish the SB i really dont see much point, as someone said, ABC poker is king, wait for good hands and get paid off, barreling air against calling stations aint a great idea
 
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themosthigh

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Yeah I'm starting to think it's just not worth it at this level. I dunno why these guys all start liking their hands after I raise their completes. Why not just raise and take my blind instead?
 
frigidbch

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Oddly enough i threw the "rulebook " out and went to 10nl even though my BR was small.They played a little more like i wanted them to(mak sense) and i found better results there.For the most rt i have stayed away from cash games for that reason. Have found more success in STT.Individual results may vary depending on your "style".Not a pro by no stretch f the imagination. Just a person who enjoys the game and knows my limitations at this time..
 
youregoodmate

youregoodmate

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Raise ATC to 4x the bb.
cbet ~95%.
Don't be afraid to barrel.
Profit.

One of the first things I read on this forum was this piece of advice from WVH. I do it every time and its so profitable.
 
blueskies

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I've found that at micros it is better to be slightly passive preflop. If you see the flop cheap and make a monster, you'll get paid off more often than not anyway. Most villains don't pay attention and won't fold anything.

Keep that in mind that don't complain how the villains are "fishes" and "donks" if you end up wasting 4 bets (pre and 3 streets) with your junk hand. Perhaps it is you who should have paid more attention.
 
D

detourglr

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I wanted to bring this topic up for discussion as I feel I'm leaking alot of money in this spot. Mind you I'm playing microstakes(4NL specifically).We are in the BB, action folds around to the SB who completes.

Now in my studies and notes I have these two things written down........

"Punish those who limp from the SB"
"If someone limps from the SB, that is your blind. Raise and take it!"

We all know that it's pretty f'in weak to just complete the SB. I have made it a habit lately to start going after these guys and raising it up when they complete but I just keep finding myself in crap spots.

-I raise, they call, and next thing you know I'm in a pot with station who doesn't fold to cbets.
-I raise, they call, I cbet my missed hand and get raised.
-I raise, they call, I have garbage hand and I just give up.

It's getting to the point where I'm starting to think I'm better off just raising the regular value hands I would always raise from BB and if I don't have one and they complete just taking the freeplay and checking down the pot unless I smash 2 pair or better. I find that if I just go the free play route they almost always take a stab at the flop.

So what is the profitable way to play in this spot at the micros?
Which hands should we be raising in this spot?
Which villains should we be raising?
Which ones should we just check it back against?

I'm tired of raising and throwing away money trying to take it down with a cbet on the flop when they always call. Please help.
I am in the same boat as you.. Like said earlier in this post if you are playing the micro limits this is harder to do. Also I think you have to know your opponents and know when not to do this what you said above.
Myself I havent quite master this yet. but I am working on it.
 
starting_at_the_bottom

starting_at_the_bottom

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WVHillbilly

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Because blind stealing isnt a concept they have ever heard of.

All players should read this before playing 2nl/4nl as essential reading. When you understand this it makes micros lolcrushable.

http://www.thepokerbank.com/strategy/psychology/multiple-level-thinking/
You do realize that the same logic is also the reason why raising preflop and then cbetting is so profitable right? I mean they only hit about 30% of the time and when they don't hit they fold because while they're not concerned with what you have, they are concerned with what they have.

You 2nl guys just keep convincing yourself that passive poker is best at that level. Yes, you can win playing bad poker at 2nl, but there is a better way. Aggression will be more profitable and will actually make you a better player but 2nl isn't about getting better it's about winning a bunch of money right????? :rolleyes:
Wait a minute!
 
starting_at_the_bottom

starting_at_the_bottom

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"You do realize that the same logic is also the reason why raising preflop and then cbetting is so profitable right?"

I see where you are coming from butI dont find the standard continuation bet profitable unless I hit or have a decent draw, I have given up running a continuation as a matter of course and use it very much villain(s) dependent. Spend a few hours 4nl at sky poker. - Then tell me you cant see my point.
 
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vagas35

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"You do realize that the same logic is also the reason why raising preflop and then cbetting is so profitable right?"

I see where you are coming from butI dont find the standard continuation bet profitable unless I hit or have a decent draw, I have given up running a continuation as a matter of course and use it very much villain(s) dependent. Spend a few hours 4nl at sky poker. - Then tell me you cant see my point.

I play at Sky poker and cbet about 90% of the time if i'm heads up. Its very profitable.
 
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