when to employ pot odds?

Hi all,

I have been thinking about this for a week or so, and haven't really come up with a solid answer. But, when is it a good idea to employ pot odds in making a decision (call, fold mostly)?

If I understand things correctly (notice the 'if') the following is a *rough* estimate of bets / odds / outs:

size of bet...%of pot you put in...#outs needed (next card)
1/4 pot bet.....16%.......................8
1/2 pot bet.....25%.......................12
3/4 pot bet.....30%.......................15
1/1 pot bet.....33%.......................16

Based on these 4 scenarios against one player (and neglecting implied odds you or your opponent not all in, etc..), to make this call, you would have to have something along the lines of
1. an open ended straight draw
2. flush draw + inside straight draw (maybe hit a high pair or two pair)
3. a flush draw + open ended straight draw
4. and finally, some really amazing draw where you have 16+ outs

I see bets of 1/3 - pot sized all the time ($0.05/$0.10 NL). Most people don't adhere anywhere near what the pot odds say they should do (including myself). So, I have come to the conclusion that pot odds are something to consider, but not to base decisions strictly on (Mr Obvious, I know). Which brings me to my question, of when do you employ pot odds? At what point in the hand? What about multi-way pots?? Odds get much better, but better chance of someone else beating you. Just trying to figure out how this information should be incorporated in your game.

Also, maybe I am misinterpreting something along the way. If so, please feel free to correct me / tell me I'm a moron / etc...

I don't really see the relevance of your middle column (% of pot you put in).

Pot odds come into play when you are on a pure draw (your hand has no current value against your opponents range)

The other thing to consider is that there is no fold equity (a raise will not cause your opponent to fold a significant portion of his range)

Implied odds can be taken out of the equation if you feel you opponent wil fold even a 1/3 pot bet once you hit say a flush.

So with no fold equity, no current hand and no implied odds, the only thing left is pot odds. If you are getting incorrect odds, do not feel that a raise will fold out your opponent often enough and do not feel he will continue to bet once your draw hits... then you can only call if you have correct odds.

Usually in NL, there are some implied odds and often there is some fold equity, if not then you are correct in thinking that yourdecision will often be to fold.

dumpy620_84 said:

I see bets of 1/3 - pot sized all the time ($0.05/$0.10 NL).

Click to expand...

1/3 pot bets on the flop are pretty pointless in alost all situations. They do not charge most draws and have little FE against most players. As c-bet bluffs they dont need to work all that often to show a profit (25% of the time) but the reduction in FE probably impacts on their profitability.

1/2 pot bets as a c-bet bluff need to work 33% of the time to show a profit, but have significantly more FE than 1/3 pot bets.

3/4 pot needs to work as a bluff 43% of the time and pot bets 50% of the time.

Well, if your going to hit your draw 25% of the time then you would want to be getting 4-1 on the call your planning on making. Those are the ways I look at it.

But the thing is with online poker you have to realize, that most people don't take into account any math when playing so don't think just because they bet a certain amount they have any clue what they are actually trying to do.