When to donk bet

BLieve

BLieve

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I have always refused to donk bet because it is regarded as more or less "impolite". It is like taking a charge in a local basketball game, it is like biting someone in a fight. It could be effective but it's not really accepted. But lately I am starting to think this is one technique that can really help my game. I am sure there are benefits to donk betting similar to a value/blocking bet and while some may argue that a check raise is always better than a dbet, a check raise requires the villain to bet first. If he doesnt and the board texture changes, you may no longer be +EV with a lead bet on the turn.

My first hunch is that dbets work very well against players like me, the NITs and maybe even the TAGs who rely heavily on control and fold equity. A TAG with a AJo hand on a 5K9r flop will probably not reraise a dbet (I cant see how this would be +EV) and won't call either as he loses aggression and fold equity.

I believe in order to know when to effectively use it, we must know how to counter it (or not counter it). For the example I listed above, I believe the best move is to fold to a standard sized dbet so if we can put villain on a broadway hand or mid pp (huge percent of a TAG's range) then it would in fact be a good scenario to dbet.

What are your ways to counter dbets and in what scenarios? When do you believe it is a good time to dbet (villain category and board texture)?
 
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bubonicplay

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Donk betting is good when you don't think they will bet themselves. If they're going to bet their shit you can just check raise them and you win a bigger pot but if they're going to check back stuff you want to make them fold check raise is a bad idea and donk betting can be better.
 
Epik High

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bubonicplay said:
Donk betting is good when you don't think they will bet themselves. If they're going to bet their shit you can just check raise them and you win a bigger pot but if they're going to check back stuff you want to make them fold check raise is a bad idea and donk betting can be better.
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this basically
 
thepokerkid123

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Donk betting is great.

Regs either raise or fold as a default to donk betting, no one seems to know what the donk bet means and some regs spaz out and raise with air while others fold. Against me personally, I fold to donk bets way more often than cbets so donk betting into me as a bluff = +EV. Either way, people adjust badly to it.

Also I'm finding that a lot of fish in the micros don't actually know what a c-bet is (or show no signs of knowing) so you can effectively donk bet into them and they treat it the same as they would if you were the pre-flop raiser. If you pick your spots and only do it when the flop missed their range, this can be hugely +EV.
 
spiderman637

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Donk betting is done when u are playing against tight passive players. I ts effective mostly when there is one player to call. And most importantly, ur table image is very crucial factor which determines the success of ur donk bet.And also u cant do it, if the opponent is committed to the pot, thats one thing ppl forget at tables...
 
Weregoat

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Donk bets force your opponent to make mistakes.

I use it sometimes in HU SNGs at the Ultra Turbo pace (2 min blinds on AP) - for two reasons.

1. Set a precedence. When the blinds are still low, I can donk-bet to see how an opponent will react. Will they overbet on a raise? Will they fold, or cautiously call? After doing it a few times in small pots for small bets, the villain becomes accustomed to the move and mistakenly puts you on a hand - either good or bad - and reacts accordingly. Once the blinds go up, you can use this knowledge to your advantage. TpTk on a dry board in a medium sized pot? I donk-bet knowing that villain will raise with hands I've seen him raise with before, and am happy to repop him.

2. It throws your opponents off. When this move is used against me, I'll raise with just about any holdings I could justify calling with - and ussually talk shit in the process. I have AJo, the flop comes Q74, you bet 30T into a pot of 300T, I'll say something like "If you want to bet, bet like a man." And pop it up to 210T or so - and react accordingly. Also, donk bets are a great way to get your opponent to throw away their blinds when they are short stacked and have a poor M.

A lot of opponents are willing to fold blind after blind after blind after blind to min raises and min bets. And I'm happy to collect them. I always know where I'm at in a hand (I guess it comes with a lot of hands of poker, both live and online, and I'm rarely surprised when the hole cards get shown and my opponent had a hidden monster...) so I can use them to my advantage when it's HU and my opponent's stack is 4 BBs and I know they can't call another BB when it's half the pot, for instance.

A lot of hands are fit or fold when you're short-stacked, and a lot of flops miss your villain -

In a game format that isn't UT HU SnG, I won't use this move. I will lower the size of my bluffs - and CBets, because like I said, it throws your opponent off. "Why's he betting 80 into a pot of 400?" - yes, this is a donk bet, but my turn bet is going to be 400 - telling the story that I've had them the whole time.

Which adds value to my next donk bet, as the donk bet on the flop holds the threat of a bigger bet on the turn.

It's an interesting move, but it has limited application. If you want to post a blocking bet, size it appropriately. I very rarely don't raise a donk bet if my stack and hand can support it. If my hand has no business being in the pot, away it goes.
 
BLieve

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spiderman637 said:
Donk betting is done when u are playing against tight passive players. I ts effective mostly when there is one player to call. And most importantly, ur table image is very crucial factor which determines the success of ur donk bet.And also u cant do it, if the opponent is committed to the pot, thats one thing ppl forget at tables...
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I have seen villains fold with more than 10:1 odds and no more than 10bb left in their stack (cash game) so this is definitely villain dependent. A tight passive player might not be able to let go of their hands post flop so donk betting may lead to unwanted calls. I would argue it works better against LAGs since they open with such a wide range.


Weregoat said:
Donk bets force your opponent to make mistakes.

I use it sometimes in HU SNGs at the Ultra Turbo pace (2 min blinds on Absolute Poker) - for two reasons.

1. Set a precedence. When the blinds are still low, I can donk-bet to see how an opponent will react. Will they overbet on a raise? Will they fold, or cautiously call? After doing it a few times in small pots for small bets, the villain becomes accustomed to the move and mistakenly puts you on a hand - either good or bad - and reacts accordingly. Once the blinds go up, you can use this knowledge to your advantage. TpTk on a dry board in a medium sized pot? I donk-bet knowing that villain will raise with hands I've seen him raise with before, and am happy to repop him.

2. It throws your opponents off. When this move is used against me, I'll raise with just about any holdings I could justify calling with - and ussually talk shit in the process. I have AJo, the flop comes Q74, you bet 30T into a pot of 300T, I'll say something like "If you want to bet, bet like a man." And pop it up to 210T or so - and react accordingly. Also, donk bets are a great way to get your opponent to throw away their blinds when they are short stacked and have a poor M.

A lot of opponents are willing to fold blind after blind after blind after blind to min raises and min bets. And I'm happy to collect them. I always know where I'm at in a hand (I guess it comes with a lot of hands of poker, both live and online, and I'm rarely surprised when the hole cards get shown and my opponent had a hidden monster...) so I can use them to my advantage when it's HU and my opponent's stack is 4 BBs and I know they can't call another BB when it's half the pot, for instance.

A lot of hands are fit or fold when you're short-stacked, and a lot of flops miss your villain -

In a game format that isn't UT HU SnG, I won't use this move. I will lower the size of my bluffs - and CBets, because like I said, it throws your opponent off. "Why's he betting 80 into a pot of 400?" - yes, this is a donk bet, but my turn bet is going to be 400 - telling the story that I've had them the whole time.

Which adds value to my next donk bet, as the donk bet on the flop holds the threat of a bigger bet on the turn.

It's an interesting move, but it has limited application. If you want to post a blocking bet, size it appropriately. I very rarely don't raise a donk bet if my stack and hand can support it. If my hand has no business being in the pot, away it goes.
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I get the impression that your take on donk bets are that they are small below standard sized bets. While that is the case a lot of the times, I often run into half pot to pot size dbets.

What makes them so hard to play against is that you know some jumpy fish will dbet the pot oop when they hit a set or two pair and at the same time, other fish will do it with a draw, overpairs or middle pps.
 
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BenLZ

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I don't donk bet often, but last time I donk bet was when I had a very strong hand that was vulnerable in a multi-way pot. I was in the SB with AK and had called a raise from the CO with 3 other people in the pot and the flop came A,K,T two suited, so I immediately just bet 2/3 the pot since I didn't want to give a free card and I don't like c/r my very strong hands. A donk bet looks less credible, and I've noticed c/r tend to scare people off. The original raiser shoved with 44 anyway so I guess it worked.
 
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