What's the expectation per hour ?

I would say most slack play happens when you get impatient.

I have read a decent win rate is 3bb per 100 hands - at 100 hands per hour hour, in 5NL, if you play 4 hours you should be happy to leave with 5.60 ?

That's why slack play comes in, it's a lot of sitting and waiting to earn 60 cents.

Can anyone confirm what sort of win rate you should set yourself when online - and would it vary on your skill level and stake size ?

Thanks in advance.

5bb / 100 is certainly doable at 5nl, so yeah 4 tabling you're looking at $1/hour, don't give up the day job

I have been recording my play on an hourly basis and have just reached 10 hours total 6 tabling 10nl . I know this is a small sample size, but I am +$140...$14 per hour.. I am not sure if this is something I can expect long term or if ot is just short term varience, so I am going to complete 100 hours to see what my hourly rate would be over a lager sample size.

LittleRatBag said:

I have been recording my play on an hourly basis and have just reached 10 hours total 6 tabling 10nl . I know this is a small sample size, but I am +$140...$14 per hour.. I am not sure if this is something I can expect long term or if ot is just short term varience, so I am going to complete 100 hours to see what my hourly rate would be over a lager sample size.

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That is probably variance. I mean not saying it is impossible but you are averaging 14 buyins at that limit an hour. That is a lot and I doubt it is sustainable.

1$ an hour aint bad for playing a game tho.....

lostcause said:

That is probably variance. I mean not saying it is impossible but you are averaging 14 buyins at that limit an hour. That is a lot and I doubt it is sustainable.

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? 1.4 buyins per hour isn't it?
I am not suprized to learn that it is not sustainable though as I know I have lots of leaks and am relatively new to cash, so am prob just running hot h. I don't have a HUD yet either, quite frankly I find them quite daunting, so much info to digest, but I am obv at a disadvantage if most regs are using one so am gonna get pt4 at weekend and try to suss it.

Well, clearly no-one plays 5NL hoping to make money, but in terms of using these figures as a measure of success, it's a good way to track if you are doing ok.

Interestingly, at 3bb per 100 hands, here's what I am currently facing:

bankroll: 100
Ferguson rules to reach next level - +45 profit

+ 45 profit = 900 big blinds.

900 big blind profit @ 3 per 100 = 30,000 hands...

60 hands per hour on average online means 500 hours play to make $45 in order to move up a level.

Now, here is a question. Clearly I am not doing this for money, I really want to be a better player. I primarily want to play live cash tables in casinos (where I do ok).

Given the amount of learners and really loose play on the micro tables, am I really playing at the best level to develop my poker abilities ? Let's face it, you gat some really slack play at the lowest level, to be expected as the lowest limits is where people come to play for the first time. You just can't practice steals, barrelling, and other things that you really do need to bring in to your game, you can't hand read because people open with anything and call with anything, do you really help your game on the lowest table ?

I can increase my bankroll, keep to Ferguson rules and play on higher level tables and keep trying to improve.

So, I guess the question is, what really is the best level to play at if you are trying to tighten up as an intermediate player ?

I can bankroll much higher, if it will get me to a level where it's much better to learn.

Any suggestions ?

micromachine said:

5bb / 100 is certainly doable at 5nl, so yeah 4 tabling you're looking at $1/hour, don't give up the day job

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This is what makes me wonder about micro grinders.

If 7bb/100 at 5nl 20 tabling is only $7 per hour, what is the point?

I really feel like staying at the micros instead of moving up in stakes is a waste of time if you make less than min. wage.


Enesem, I agree with you 100%. I am curious about a veterans opinion on this. The micros is basically JUST ABC poker, thats it. Playing a mental game at the micros is seemingly pointless since you will be the only player thinking at the table. I honestly feel like if you had the BR for it, 10NL or even 25NL would be a much better learning tool.

LittleRatBag said:

? 1.4 buyins per hour isn't it?
I am not suprized to learn that it is not sustainable though as I know I have lots of leaks and am relatively new to cash, so am prob just running hot h. I don't have a HUD yet either, quite frankly I find them quite daunting, so much info to digest, but I am obv at a disadvantage if most regs are using one so am gonna get pt4 at weekend and try to suss it.

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Sorry made a mistake in my math. Most of the top players only average per 100 hands at less than 10 bb/ 100. You would be over 200 bb / 100 with your current sample. That is why I say it does not seem sustainable. Tracking software is definitely going to help you track your results. I would wait till you have close to 50k - 100k hands to have a reasonable idea on what your win rate is.

IPlay said:

This is what makes me wonder about micro grinders.

If 7bb/100 at 5nl 20 tabling is only $7 per hour, what is the point?

I really feel like staying at the micros instead of moving up in stakes is a waste of time if you make less than min. wage.


Enesem, I agree with you 100%. I am curious about a veterans opinion on this. The micros is basically JUST ABC poker, thats it. Playing a mental game at the micros is seemingly pointless since you will be the only player thinking at the table. I honestly feel like if you had the BR for it, 10NL or even 25NL would be a much better learning tool.

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Not everyone is from the US or some first word country. I work as a professional in my little country of Malaysia and 7 usd per hour is definitely making me way more than what I am now not even including rake back. And Malaysia is not exactly third world either, imagine how much is 7usd/hour for a third worlder.

And you are right about 2nl being only abc poker,but there are some poker- challenged people who find 2nl difficult because they cannot even follow ABC or just succumbs to plain logic fails launch as gambler's fallacy ( my mom folded aces preflop last night as I was teaching her during my last trip home, this thinking is stuck on her and I could not convince her otherwise because she says she has already won the last preflop all in with aces)

You two clearly are not so move up at least to 5nl is quite okay by me , if you lack bankroll, just deposit and save time from grinding 2nl,the scum stakes.

IPlay said:

This is what makes me wonder about micro grinders.

If 7bb/100 at 5nl 20 tabling is only $7 per hour, what is the point?

I really feel like staying at the micros instead of moving up in stakes is a waste of time if you make less than min. wage.


Enesem, I agree with you 100%. I am curious about a veterans opinion on this. The micros is basically JUST ABC poker, thats it. Playing a mental game at the micros is seemingly pointless since you will be the only player thinking at the table. I honestly feel like if you had the BR for it, 10NL or even 25NL would be a much better learning tool.

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Depends how much the minimum wage is. I played last year at 5 and 10 NL on my free time and I bought 3 TVs for my apartment and a new computer. Imagine or not here in Romania at my every day job I am paid less than 1k dollars a month working as automatics engineer. And I am one of those that is paid decent enough in my town. So 200 or 300$ playing poker 1-2 hours a day is a good bonus for me to cover some expenses.

lostcause said:

Sorry made a mistake in my math. Most of the top players only average per 100 hands at less than 10 bb/ 100. You would be over 200 bb / 100 with your current sample. That is why I say it does not seem sustainable. Tracking software is definitely going to help you track your results. I would wait till you have close to 50k - 100k hands to have a reasonable idea on what your win rate is.

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Just a correction. If you average 100 hands per hour you would be winning 140 bb/ 100. Need to sleep more keep on switching numbers.

IPlay said:

This is what makes me wonder about micro grinders.

If 7bb/100 at 5nl 20 tabling is only $7 per hour, what is the point?

I really feel like staying at the micros instead of moving up in stakes is a waste of time if you make less than min. wage.


Enesem, I agree with you 100%. I am curious about a veterans opinion on this. The micros is basically JUST ABC poker, thats it. Playing a mental game at the micros is seemingly pointless since you will be the only player thinking at the table. I honestly feel like if you had the BR for it, 10NL or even 25NL would be a much better learning tool.

Click to expand...

You forget that not everyone is doing this just for money, There are people who play recreationally, even though the amount they play does not put them in that category. Plus maybe they have a job so anything they make they may use at the end of the year for fun money. Now this is for people in places where that is not a lot of money but some places that is a really good living. Others just do not want to risk a lot of money so they only play at levels of risk they feel comfortable with.

I have also seen players who are really good at the micros and some I have known in person. The people I have talked to say they feel comfortable where they are at and do not want to change that.