What's a good win rate?

#1 May 30th, 2007, 7:41 AM

What's a good sustainable cash table win rate?

Do you measure that in BB/100?

I've moved up a level and am running so far at 22 BBs/100 but have only had one real down session so far, so I don't think that's sustainable.

#2 May 30th, 2007, 3:07 PM

I have heard 10BB/100 with BB = big bets (not big blinds). If you convert to big blinds for NL it would be 20bb.

#3 May 30th, 2007, 3:12 PM

For NL, that's the "expert" winrate, that I've heard, yeah.

For limit hold 'em, a more reasonable winrate is found around 1-2BB/100. Experts might squeeze at 3BB/100 at the lower stakes.

It very much depends on how much table selection you put into it, and how many tables you play in paralell, etc. Having a high winrate and winning a lot of money may not be synonymous.

#4 May 30th, 2007, 3:44 PM

I play $25NL and $50NL ring games with fair success.

My win rate is 14.32 BB/100, and that is over a pretty big sample, nearly 20,000 hands.

#5 May 30th, 2007, 4:26 PM

Big bets or big blinds?

#6 May 30th, 2007, 4:56 PM

Sorry, FP, Big Blinds (more usual when discussing NL).

So, according to the criterion you mentioned, I don`t qualify as an expert. A perfectly fair conclusion, I`d say. However, my numbers represent about $1000 profit. That seems okay to me, and I`d guess most other recreational players would be happy with that.

#7 May 30th, 2007, 5:01 PM

Don't get me wrong; 7PTBB/100 is not by any means, way, shape or form a bad result. 10PTBB/100 is generally considered the highest anyone can reliably sustain, so being just shy of that is hardly something to frown on. 10, in other words, is not the lower limit, it's the upper limit. That's why I was curious as to if you were actually higher than 10.

7 is a really good result, and you should be more than happy about it.

#8 May 30th, 2007, 5:23 PM

Originally Posted by F Paulsson

7 is a really good result, and you should be more than happy about it.

I`m fine with it, FP, and thanks.

My usual action plan, when I deposit at a new site, is to build my BR using ring games (and some STTs). I have found I can accumulate cash steadily that way.

When my BR gets large enough, I switch over to playing mainly MTTs - bigger variance but larger winning potential.

It has worked well for me (in monetary terms) at three different sites, and has the additional benefit that, because I play all three disciplines (Ring, STT, MTT) and switch from one to another from time to time, I keep learning new moves and my game keeps improving.

#9 May 30th, 2007, 6:21 PM

ya im around 7.6 ptbb/100 at 50max if i remember correctly.

#10 May 30th, 2007, 7:31 PM

Originally Posted by aliengenius

I have heard 10BB/100 with BB = big bets (not big blinds). If you convert to big blinds for NL it would be 20bb.

Sorry, I'm using stats from Pokertracker without knowing what they mean. And it is NL.

So, my number of 22 is Big Blinds = 11 Big Bets of Limit?

And Egon's 14 is NL, so = 7 Big Bets for limit?

So what does the ptbb refer to?

And is joose' and Egon's rates pretty much the same then, or am I not following this correctly?

And ultimately, as I suspected, my current short term rate is unsustainable. I better enjoy it while it lasts.

#11 May 30th, 2007, 7:42 PM

PTBB = 2xbig blinds. Egon's and joose's winrates are the same.

#12 May 30th, 2007, 7:48 PM

Originally Posted by F Paulsson

PTBB = 2xbig blinds. Egon's and joose's winrates are the same.

Thanks FP. And everyone else in this thread.

#13 June 2nd, 2007, 7:24 PM

Okay, maybe I'm still confused.

My details PT screen says (now) 23.14 Big Bets / 100 hands. This is at 0.10/0.25 blinds, and win rate is $11.57 / 100 hands.

$11.57 / 0.25 = 46.28 big blinds per 100 hands, so the 23.14 is actually Big Bets and not big blinds.

If this is true, then I'm reeaally running at an unsustainable rate, no?

#14 June 2nd, 2007, 8:48 PM

no idea. just telling you what i have.

#15 June 3rd, 2007, 2:35 PM

Originally Posted by NineLions

If this is true, then I'm reeaally running at an unsustainable rate, no?

Yes, unless you are very, very good.

Why worry ? Enjoy it while it lasts.

Manage your BR carefully, make sure you don`t give all your winnings away again if you hit a downswing.

#16 June 3rd, 2007, 4:03 PM

Does backing storm and estelle count as careful BR management?

But, thanks Egon. March was good for me, April was tough. May ended well with this change in levels so I'm going to enjoy it, with the plan that it in the long run it's not going to be anywhere close to this good.

#17 July 4th, 2007, 1:55 PM

seeing this thread is about win rates and as such i thought i'd post here then make another Thread i've started playing with a pretty low bankroll on Stars (<$200) and have been hovering around the .01/.02 and .02/.05 NL tables and was wondering if it is even worth playing in them because even if you have the dead nuts everyone is going to fold or you are going to win 30-70 cents at most with your hand that would have got alot more in another game.

Also because the limits are so low you get every wacky racer calling with anything and busting you so i guess i was just wondering if you guys feel it's worth playing in the low, low limits or wait until i can deposit more and go to the .10/.25 NL at least, cheers.

#18 July 4th, 2007, 3:34 PM

Play at the lowest limits; learn; win; move up. Rinse, repeat.

#19 July 4th, 2007, 6:40 PM

Hi everyone!

I think a winrate after 100k hands of 3PTBB/100 and up on No Limit is a really good winrate.

Good luck!

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What's a good win rate?

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