What would you do in this spot? Live 1/2

srqgrinder

srqgrinder

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Hero in bb, folds around to mp who raises to $8, folds to btn(lag) raises to $25. Folds to me in BB with AcKd and raise to $75. Mp folds button calls. Flop 1083 all clubs. I continue for $60 and button puts me all in for my last $65. What mistakes did I make in this hand? What do you do in this spot?
 
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mikeisthebestever

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Cold 4-betting AK is basically turning your hand into a bluff, I think its just an overplay. Better move here is flatting and having more room to play poker if you miss.
 
playinggameswithu

playinggameswithu

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AK is the most overrated hand OOP I would just flat,once AK misses it is true junk. You squeezed out all the weaker aces also. Id call.
 
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fezjones

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I don't mind jamming pre at all, then check call a lot of flops.

Jamming pre is soo plus EV+, if u get felted u are basically gonna stack someone once you get QQ+, Cuz now ur range is so wide.
 
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mikeisthebestever

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AK is the most overrated hand OOP I would just flat,once AK misses it is true junk. You squeezed out all the weaker aces also. Id call.

Thats the problem with this line tho, you cant put half your stack in and then fold.. so once you miss you are pot committed and drawing to 8 outs [best case scenario].

Also, I agree that jamming pre is a better play than 4-betting, but you would be jamming for like 8x the bet? There just isnt a good line here aside from flatting.
 
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DonksRUs

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First time caller, long time listener.

Assuming your read is correct, I don't mind a 4bet w/your AK into the lag. With your chip stack being what it is, regardless of what the flop brings, you're only play is to go all-in.

The fact that you lead $60 into a $158 pot, when he raises you all-in, there's no decision here; you're snap calling all-in.

I, far and away, prefer you jamming on the flop for $125 and putting the lag to the test.

My thoughts, not yours. I look forward to hearing yours.
 
Slider23

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It is unconventional, but consider laying the Hand down for the following reasons.
1) hand is not suited.
2) you are out of position in blind
3) the hand is a dog to almost all pairs
4) if LAG has a narrow 3B range. My guess is LAG had JJ or QQ.
5) you are only invested $2 in pot.

The better play would be flatting, and get off the hand if no improvement on flop.
 
srqgrinder

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Appreciate the feed back, I called off and he ended up having the j4 of clubs which he claimed was his favorite hand. He held, only reason I 4 bet was he was doing this very often with unbelievable hands. Did end up re-buying and booking a pretty nice win tho. I
 
srqgrinder

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I didn't think I was turning hand into a bluff, this particular player I knew was going to call down with, any ace, any two Broadway cards, definitely any pocket pair, and most suited cards. I wanted to isolate him and get MP out of the way. This particular case I was in the lead with about 65% equity. But variance happens. So does justice! Lol, and it feels so good when justice is served the same night!
 
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mikeisthebestever

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I think I misread what you wrote before.. I didnt see that you assumed he would be very light [accurately.] With that read I think the 4-bet is okay actually, I would just shove the flop I think to capitalize on any fold equity you may have because you dont have a made hand yet. I think you played the situation very well, just ran bad my friend.
 
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Iriasj2009

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Vs this type of player, I'm doing the same thing except for just shoving the flop.
 
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MrSamsa

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I don't mind jamming pre at all, then check call a lot of flops.

Jamming pre is soo plus EV+, if u get felted u are basically gonna stack someone once you get QQ+, Cuz now ur range is so wide.

You just cant shove 100bb into 16 though with AKo, its ludicrous unless you are sure lagtard is going to call off with anything you will only get called by better making it a seriously negative EV play, espescially with others in the pot who are more competent and take note of how wide your shoving range is
 
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MrSamsa

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Appreciate the feed back, I called off and he ended up having the j4 of clubs which he claimed was his favorite hand. He held, only reason I 4 bet was he was doing this very often with unbelievable hands. Did end up re-buying and booking a pretty nice win tho. I

Im glad it all ended well, what a ridiculous hand on his part. I think you did everything you could all things considered my dude sorry about the beat
 
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fezjones

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You just cant shove 100bb into 16 though with AKo, its ludicrous unless you are sure lagtard is going to call off with anything you will only get called by better making it a seriously negative EV play, espescially with others in the pot who are more competent and take note of how wide your shoving range is

He shoves in this spot and he wins the hand cuz the button folds amarite. When people are raising super light it's time to exploit. Although I often just flat with AK in this spot cuz I rarely run into lags that are so spewy their range is exploitable.
 
Carl Trooper

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As played, 100% calling the shove.

Honestly I like your line here.

He prob has JJ + perhaps a set of 10s?

You having the nut flush draw + 2 overs and you committed more than 60% of your stack? Yeh, NEVER folding here.
 
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MrSamsa

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He shoves in this spot and he wins the hand cuz the button folds amarite. When people are raising super light it's time to exploit. Although I often just flat with AK in this spot cuz I rarely run into lags that are so spewy their range is exploitable.

Only because we know the MP was folding this time, with another player left to act its way to loose of a play. When the the MP or other player who opened the pot wakes up with a monster while you were exploitatively isolating and you jam into him you are going to loose a lot of money.. Also even bad players get good hands what then? It just isn't strong enough of a hand, You would want jj to do that with and not get exploited yourself in my opinion


There is also rake to consider I'm not sure how its structured there but if its based on the size of the pot inflating it unnecessarily is also a bad idea.
 
bellam

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The pre-flop play was a bit too crazy. Considering that you're out of position and that this guy might be a tough one post-flop I would just flat 25$. Yeah he's a loose aggressive player but AK offsuit or suited is soooo overrated.

AK smashes the flop with two pair or better about 4% of the time and flops top pair only 29% of the time. You will MISS the flop and end up with Ace high 67% of the time.

Given the odds you have and the pot size coupled with the fact that your opponent is DEFINITELY strong here, I would just flat, if I miss I'd go ahead and check-fold. Don't involve your ego. As the great Doyle Brunson said in Poker After Dark:

"You gotta swallow that pride and you gotta throw that hand away when you know you're beat."
 
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Blair29

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To me its either a flat or a shove pre simply because the 4 bet leaves you with less that a pot size bet behind and your OOP.

Post flop the hand plays its self, more than enough equity just to shove drawing to the nuts.
 
Aaron Soto

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IMO awful call PF. I don't think you have a lot of experience on the 1-2. 25$ raise usually means AA, KK, QQ typically and at best, maybe AK. But I don't think anyone is raising AK to 25 unless they very deep stacked and have everyone covered.

1. I would fold AK to 25 unless I am deep stacked and Opp is short stacked.
2. Any pocket pair is simply way ahead. I never give AK 45% equity (the reality of it you have to consider any A or K that was folded by other opponents. Pocket Pair is always a pocket pair plain and simple.)
3. The 3-bet to 60 you may as well kiss your money good bye. Your practically pot committed no matter what comes out on the flop. That's simply just to aggro.
4. AK is a dog to any pocket pair, AA, KK you are behind everything basically.

Good Luck!
 
Robochick

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I would flat AK as it is still a drawing hand.
 
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Hondo

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I fall into the camp of folding pre-flop. Even the weak aggressive read of the button is insufficient argument for entering this pot. However having said that shoving probably better than 4 betting and as already pointed out as played out you are pretty much forced to call the button shoved over your open lead.
:jd4:
 
Poker Orifice

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IMO awful call PF.He din't 'call' I don't think you have a lot of experience on the 1-2. 25$ raise usually means AA, KK, QQ typically and at best, maybe AK.maybe he has a better idea of villain's range in this spot (He was there) But I don't think anyone is raising AK to 25 unless they very deep stacked and have everyone covered. Did you read the initial post completely? Did you read through the thread? Villain held Jc4c (that's a far cry from a range of only QQ+)

1. I would fold AK to 25 unless I am deep stacked and Opp is short stacked. If villain is short stacked... what difference would it make if you were deep or short? (it's not a tournament here... it's a 1/2 cash table)
2. Any pocket pair is simply way ahead. I never give AK 45% equity (the reality of it you have to consider any A or K that was folded by other opponents. Pocket Pair is always a pocket pair plain and simple.) Hmm... I can see you're not familiar with calculating odds.
3. The 3-bet to 60 you may as well kiss your money good bye. Your practically pot committed no matter what comes out on the flop. That's simply just to aggro.
4. AK is a dog to any pocket pair, AA, KK you are behind everything basically.

Good Luck!
Poker is still +ev ;)
 
Poker Orifice

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IMO awful call PF.<font color="#ff0000"><b>He din't 'call'</b></font> I don't think you have a lot of experience on the 1-2. 25$ raise usually means AA, KK, QQ typically and at best, maybe AK.<font color="#ff0000"><b>maybe he has a better idea of villain's range in this spot (He was there)</b></font> But I don't think anyone is raising AK to 25 unless they very deep stacked and have everyone covered. <font color="#ff0000"><b>Did you read the initial post completely?  Did you read through the thread?  Villain held Jc4c  (that's a far cry from a range of only QQ+)</b></font><br>
<br>
1. I would fold AK to 25 unless I am deep stacked and Opp is short stacked. <div><font color="#ff0000"><b>If villain is short stacked... what difference would it make if you were deep or short? (it's not a tournament here... it's a 1/2 cash table)</b></font><br>
2. Any pocket pair is simply way ahead. I never give AK 45% equity (the reality of it you have to consider any A or K that was folded by other opponents. Pocket Pair is always a pocket pair plain and simple.) <font color="#ff0000"><b>Hmm...  I can see you're not familiar with calculating odds.</b></font><br>
3. The 3-bet to 60 you may as well kiss your money good bye. Your practically pot committed no matter what comes out on the flop. That's simply just to aggro. <br>
4. AK is a dog to any pocket pair, AA, KK you are behind everything basically. <br>
<br>
Good Luck!
</div><div>

Poker is still +ev ;)


OP, I'd probably play it same here as you've played it.
 
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