What did I do wrong here??

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getmesum_fishNchips

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I am playing a £0.02/£0.04 six max cash game. I am in the SB in this hand and have Ad,Ks. Ok the action preflop goes call, fold, call, I raise 4x. I get 1 fold, then couple of callers. Flop is Kh, Jd, 7h.

I check, then another check, then a min bet to 0.04, then I raise to 0.28, get a fold, then a reraise to 0.48 from the initial min bettor. I flat call, but I have put him on pair of J's or flush draw.

Turn is 5h, villain bets 0.81, so I move all in for 0.48. He show Ah,Jh for the ace high flush. He was calling me light so thats why I called to find him out.

OK what would you have done in this situation, but the main question is, how do I try to counter act people who chase their flush draws on the flop? So basically I dont want to give them the odds to call and chase their draws, I want to try and deter them.
 
blueskies

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Hold on a sec, you're saying that you just flatted him on the flop to leave yourself with 48c to the turn? Just shove it all in there. There's no pt to flatting cuz you chck/called all in on the turn anyway. If you thnk he had you, then fold. Don't be letting him see a cheap card.

If my math is right, you would only be shoving 96c total over his 48c raise. He's gonna call you with a lot of stuff you're ahead of.

Also, checking the flop on that draw heavy board is silly.

Raise it bigger preflop too. Shoving is fine as well given your little stack.
 
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getmesum_fishNchips

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So I should not be afraid to get it in, if I think someone is chasing a draw.
 
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DunningKruger

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OK what would you have done in this situation, but the main question is, how do I try to counter act people who chase their flush draws on the flop? So basically I dont want to give them the odds to call and chase their draws, I want to try and deter them.

Hello Checkmeister. The raise sizes seem off in your hand as NLHE rules don't actually allow for the action to unfold as described. For your question, betting and raising will deter other players from trying to catch cards they want to see, as it will then cost $ for them to do so. I'm feeling quite lazy right now so I'm not going to write an elaborate article on pot odds and implied odds etc but I'm sure some other replies will crop up in this thread here that will aid you.

Note that if your opponent is drawing to a hand without having the correct odds to do so, you're profiting from it. The goal isn't necessarily to force somebody to correctly fold their draw.

So I should not be afraid to get it in, if I think someone is chasing a draw.

Flush draws miss more often than they hit. Since you'll win the hand more often than you lose, the more money you can get into the pot the better.
 
micalupagoo

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you have to get it in( if you think you are ahead) to stop the chasers,
but some ppl will pay anything chase flush/str8s
you will get beat sometimes, nothing you can do...but,
you should win more than you lose...make chasers pay dearly
your 4x pf bet is ok

btw top pair top kicker is never worth an allin vs aggressive ppl, flush on board, as well as 2prs,sets...
 
dj11

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What they said, but keep in mind that at the micro level, you can rarely bet anyone off a nut flush draw.
 
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DunningKruger

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btw top pair top kicker is never worth an allin vs aggressive ppl, flush on board, as well as 2prs,sets...

There are a lot of ways I could respond to this, but I'll simply mention that OP is playing with a ~27 blind stack in this hand.
 
blueskies

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So I should not be afraid to get it in, if I think someone is chasing a draw.

If you were afraid that he'll call your all-in and catch his draws, so you just call him to go to the turn and see what falls, then why do you still call after the third heart comes?

If you are not gonna fold anyway, just jam it on the flop.
 
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sKiTzo

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I am playing a £0.02/£0.04 six max cash game. I am in the SB in this hand and have Ad,Ks. Ok the action preflop goes call, fold, call, I raise 4x. I get 1 fold, then couple of callers. Flop is Kh, Jd, 7h.

I check, then another check, then a min bet to 0.04, then I raise to 0.28, get a fold, then a reraise to 0.48 from the initial min bettor. I flat call, but I have put him on pair of J's or flush draw.

Turn is 5h, villain bets 0.81, so I move all in for 0.48. He show Ah,Jh for the ace high flush. He was calling me light so thats why I called to find him out.

OK what would you have done in this situation, but the main question is, how do I try to counter act people who chase their flush draws on the flop? So basically I dont want to give them the odds to call and chase their draws, I want to try and deter them.
I'm guessing but I would think you should have made him pay dearly to see the turn. Then, with the poss. flush draw on the turn, just check if you can and go on the retreat - maybe stay in if he only min. raises.
 
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dont think he was going anywhere, he had position on you and hit a pair with the nut flush draw on the flop after calling your raise. As mentioned before a flush draw will miss more often than hit so to discourage , after having put him on one I would probably have shoved after his re-raise , though on my table I wouldnt have gotten rid of anyone, they never let go of their flush draws.
 
Rappyness

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That's actually a hard situation even if you shove after flop on his re-raise I am sure he would call because it wasn't much of to call your all-in. I think if you covered all his money, that would've made a difference and he would've think twice of calling or even folding. For me, I would've folded the hand by your villain if I was pushed all-in and my whole stack is in jeopardy but in this case I would call no matter what having middle pair and flush draw.
 
atlantafalcons0

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I am playing a £0.02/£0.04 six max cash game. I am in the SB in this hand and have Ad,Ks. Ok the action preflop goes call, fold, call, I raise 4x. I get 1 fold, then couple of callers. Flop is Kh, Jd, 7h.

I check, then another check, then a min bet to 0.04, then I raise to 0.28, get a fold, then a reraise to 0.48 from the initial min bettor. I flat call, but I have put him on pair of J's or flush draw.

Turn is 5h, villain bets 0.81, so I move all in for 0.48. He show Ah,Jh for the ace high flush. He was calling me light so thats why I called to find him out.

OK what would you have done in this situation, but the main question is, how do I try to counter act people who chase their flush draws on the flop? So basically I dont want to give them the odds to call and chase their draws, I want to try and deter them.


We kinda need to know everyone's stack size.

I'd raise 5x preflop because of the two limpers and then just jam the flop and punish anyone chasing hearts.

We kinda need to know everyone's stack size.
 
IntenseHeat

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What they said, but keep in mind that at the micro level, you can rarely bet anyone off a nut flush draw.
I think what you did wrong was to join an .02/.04 table. I don't even bother with the .01/.02, .02/.04, or .02/.05. I don't bother with anything less than 10NL. Not because I'm a big baller, but because I simply don't feel it's realistic to think that you can build a bankroll at these stakes where your bets and raises aren't respected and luck seems to be as much a deciding factor as skill.

This is how I put it in perspective. I have a buddy who doesn't go into a convenience store without spending at least $20. He'll say he needs a cold drink and ask if I want one while he's running in. He'll come back out with a Dr. Pepper for himself, a sprite for me, a pack of each of our brands of cigarettes (before I quit), and however many scratch off lottery tickets it takes to use up the rest of the $20. I don't think I have ever seen him come away with less than a couple quarters out of a $20 bill at a package store. It's not that he's well off. That's just the way he is.

Now imagine someone like this at your table. What's $1.10 to this guy. I know that the size of your chipstack and your bets are relative to the blinds. At .02/.04 table .16 is a healthy pre-flop raise. But as the hand plays out, your total stack size of a little more than ¼ BI comes into play. At a .02/.04, in addition to the dead money in there, it makes for a nice little pot. But in the larger scheme of things, it's just $1.08. That's less than the amount of pocket change some people would be willing to give to the guy outside the grocery store. You could have shipped your remaining stack on the flop, and it still would simply not have been enough to discourage someone from chasing the nut flush draw regardless of pot odds. Otherwise, any of the advice above is good and might be very effective at higher stakes.

That's just what I think. Good luck.
 
Cafeman

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I think what you did wrong was to join an .02/.04 table. I don't even bother with the .01/.02, .02/.04, or .02/.05. I don't bother with anything less than 10NL. Not because I'm a big baller, but because I simply don't feel it's realistic to think that you can build a bankroll at these stakes where your bets and raises aren't respected and luck seems to be as much a deciding factor as skill.

With all due respect, that's utter bullshit.
 
starting_at_the_bottom

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And to op, why the hell are we check raising the flop!??!?!!!!?!?!?.
 
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DunningKruger

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I think what you did wrong was to join an .02/.04 table. I don't even bother with the .01/.02, .02/.04, or .02/.05. I don't bother with anything less than 10NL. Not because I'm a big baller, but because I simply don't feel it's realistic to think that you can build a bankroll at these stakes where your bets and raises aren't respected and luck seems to be as much a deciding factor as skill.

No money in 4NL. Everyone's solid.

You could have shipped your remaining stack on the flop, and it still would simply not have been enough to discourage someone from chasing the nut flush draw regardless of pot odds. Otherwise, any of the advice above is good and might be very effective at higher stakes.

It's decent advice at any stakes, really. Players don't fold draws to poor odds? Good! Get as much into the pot as they're willing to call. Anytime you can a lot of their money into the pot when you have the best best and are more likely to win than lose, you generally want to do exactly that. This is true at any stakes from 2NL to 1000NL.

FWIW, I wasn't going anywhere on that flop with villain's hand either, even though I probably wouldn't have played it quite so poorly.

Regarding the role of luck in the tiniest stakes online cash games, I believe your point is counter balanced by the large edge a competent player will have in these games and how much easier it is to get chips in as a substantial favourite than it'd be for the same player playing higher limits. Consider the following made up example.

Hero (CO): $221.50
BTN: $270.40
SB: $201.00
BB: $141.35
UTG: $200.00
MP: $432.75

SB posts SB $1.00, BB posts BB $2.00

Pre Flop: (pot: $3.00) Hero has K T

fold, fold, Hero raises to $6.50, fold, fold, BB calls $4.50

Flop: ($14.00, 2 players) K T 8
Hero bets $9.65, BB raises to $39.65, Hero goes all-in $215.00

Sure, at say 50NL this player is likely to fold his Q J so that you have a 100% chance of adding $47.15 to your stack, and perhaps a player at 5NL is more likely to call the shove here with the same Q J (requiring you to fade a couple of cards), but when you're called here you have a ~70% chance of adding $142.35 to your stack, or rather you're profiting to the tune of ~$99.60 on average every time you're called in this spot.

Obviously there's some variance when you're not guaranteed to win the pot 100% of the time, but the difference of more than 25 blinds you're winning there on average is quite significant. Variance is more of a ***** as the edges you're pushing become thinner, but the worse your competition is the less variance will be able to do to impede your ability to profit from them. In the above scenario if you know that your opponent is drawing then you're definitely hoping for a call, not a fold, when you go all in. There are times ofc where you correctly shove the best hand and hope for a fold instead, but you're still profiting either way. :)
 
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