What do you do when you have KK preflop...and you know you are beat

10crow10

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I have had this happen many times late in tournaments when i pick up KK and get into a raising war with a really tight player, knowing he's got me beat but not being able to let it go. I always tell myself that he would make the same play with QQ but it its never the case. So my question to you guys is, Can you really fold KK preflop? or must you just call and see the bad news and curse your luck?
 
Poof

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I can definately throw kk preflop. I usually raise like 10x big blind (I play .05/.10 nl) and if I knew it was a really tight player re-raising, definitely fold.
Not saying to fold to everyone just if you know it is a tight player.
 
CAPT. ZIGZAG

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I'd do pretty much whatever I can to getta look at the flop though.


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Steveg1976

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If a player is so tight that I am absolutely certain a raise is AA's, sure I would fold. But I will be making my money bck mercilessly stealing his blind knowing I will only get raised back when he has AA's.
 
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vagas35

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NO way iam folding kk pre, only won hand beating me pre, no matter how tight they are.
 
ythelongface

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if its a big enough raise and a tight enough player, yes i would fold. i wouldnt like it and i could be wrong, but i can live with it. there will be other hands in better spots i can make money.
 
icecold24k

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I have that problem to. KK is a very hard hand to get away from pre flop. Post flop you always have the option to look at the board and it becomes much easier to let it go. I really am not very sure if i can fold it pre flop but if I knew for sure it was a very tight player re-raising me then I would have to just bite the bullet and let it go.
 
mls1024

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Agreed. I would still want to see a flop before folding against a tight-reraiser though. Lately my KK and been called mostly by someone overplaying a weak ace, and of course flops an ace. :( I lose more than win with em'.:(


I have that problem to. KK is a very hard hand to get away from pre flop. Post flop you always have the option to look at the board and it becomes much easier to let it go. I really am not very sure if i can fold it pre flop but if I knew for sure it was a very tight player re-raising me then I would have to just bite the bullet and let it go.
 
KerouacsDog

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I can definately throw kk preflop. I usually raise like 10x big blind (I play .05/.10 nl) and if I knew it was a really tight player re-raising, definitely fold.
Not saying to fold to everyone just if you know it is a tight player.
sorry to pull you up on this, PF, but what amount of action do you get with a 10xBB raise PF? I play .05/.10 online, and hardly ever see a 10xBB PF raise, its either tops of 6xBB PreFlop, or all-in.
I have standard 4 or 5 xBB with KK, if its a reraise to me by one player I put them alin, if they have AA, so be it.
Post flop, texture of the board is so important, at the very least an Ace on the flop will make me consider my play, so many callers nowadays with A-rag..................
 
danny021

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well if you know you're beat then why would you call? i mean if you know it then its just a stupid play.. but how can you be sure someone holds aces... you can beat anything else so i guess unless you're sure then id be a hard fold.. but then again.. how are you ever sure..
 
RickH2005

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Pkt Ks

I have had this happen many times late in tournaments when i pick up KK and get into a raising war with a really tight player, knowing he's got me beat but not being able to let it go. I always tell myself that he would make the same play with QQ but it its never the case. So my question to you guys is, Can you really fold KK preflop? or must you just call and see the bad news and curse your luck?
Here's that word again---DEPENDS!---What's the stacks? Final table? ITM? Onna bubble? AND it wouldn't be a 'raising war'--I'd just call--like ZZ said, do what ya gotta do to see the flop!:eek:
 
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You say you know you are beat so lay it down. The addage goes "if you never lay down a winning hand you are playing too loose".
 
Chris_TC

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Please teach me how to know my opponent has Aces. This skill would be extremely useful to me. Thank you.
 
KerouacsDog

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^ultra tight fish, bets KK and AA the same way. odds of you and him both having KK are slim to say the least, but yet he's betting like he has KK or AA. So you eliminate KK, and figure(not 100% sure, but near enough sure) he has AA. In most situations I still call, even if it is just to see those Aces.
 
K

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The question here semms very simple to me. If you KNOW you're beat....FOLD!
 
c9h13no3

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I call anyway and am surprised to find out that my opponent often does not have aces.
 
kmixer

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There is no way to know you are beat. You may have a strong feeling that you are beat. But there is no way to tell you are beat unless you know his hole cards or you call the bet to the end.
 
10crow10

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There is no way to know you are beat. You may have a strong feeling that you are beat. But there is no way to tell you are beat unless you know his hole cards or you call the bet to the end.
of course i dont know for sure that I am beat but you know that gut feeling I am talking about.
 
F Paulsson

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In the half-million or so hands I've played online in the past two years, I think I can count on one hand's fingers the number of opponents I've had a firm enough read on that I could put them on specifically AA preflop. And not once have I had the misfortune of holding KK at the time.

So here's my conclusion: All of you in this thread who even consider laying down KK preflop (which, if you pardon my being presumptious, I actually doubt you do - I think you call the shove and remember the times he had AA and second guess yourself) have a huge leak in that you're much too willing to fold KK preflop.

Let me rephrase that.

If never folding KK preflop is one of your more serious leaks, you'd be in the top 0.1% of poker players in the world.
 
CAPT. ZIGZAG

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In the half-million or so hands I've played online in the past two years, I think I can count on one hand's fingers the number of opponents I've had a firm enough read on that I could put them on specifically AA preflop.

In the half-million or so hands I've played online in the past two years, I think I can count on one thousand hand's fingers the number of opponents who have beaten my K's by spiking a one on the flop. :mad:


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F Paulsson

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In the half-million or so hands I've played online in the past two years, I think I can count on one thousand hand's fingers the number of opponents who have beaten my K's by spiking a one on the flop. :mad:


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Oh, that's hardly the same thing, now is it?
 
widowmaker89

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Id also like to know where there is a possibility to get deep in a tourny and be able to get in a raising war, much less have the option to fold after one.

As Harrington says, for everytime you fold KK and make a champion laydown when villian holds AA, you folded the best hand 4 times. Something along those lines I forget exactly. In tourny there is no question with stacks so low. KK vs AA is terrible and there is always the "i knew it" factor but its the right play, just didnt work out.
 
Poof

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sorry to pull you up on this, PF, but what amount of action do you get with a 10xBB raise PF? I play .05/.10 online, and hardly ever see a 10xBB PF raise, its either tops of 6xBB PreFlop, or all-in.
I have standard 4 or 5 xBB with KK, if its a reraise to me by one player I put them alin, if they have AA, so be it.
Post flop, texture of the board is so important, at the very least an Ace on the flop will make me consider my play, so many callers nowadays with A-rag..................


With kk I standard on .05/.10 put up $1. I believe that is 10x the blind.
so now if any of you are at my table and i raise a buck you know what I have, lol
Oh to the question I get no action, maybe if there is a loose maniac.
 
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naruto_miu

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Here's that word again---DEPENDS!---What's the stacks? Final table? ITM? Onna bubble? AND it wouldn't be a 'raising war'--I'd just call--like ZZ said, do what ya gotta do to see the flop!:eek:

LMAO, do what ya gotta do to see the flop really??? I mean ok look if the dude got AA, and the flop is all lows, now what you going to do? Are you really going to put them on AA, really? It's, how did Agent Smith put, "Inevitable", I hope I spelt it right, but regardless there's no way out, unless you hit a set
 
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don't you think if one is putting in the 4th raise pre-flop, s/he probably has aces? that's one situation, at least, where i wouldn't feel as bad folding K,K
 
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