What to do when people simply refuse to fold

kmixer

kmixer

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Was playing in a hand 05/10 at FTP and was BB with AQ suited. Called a 40 cent raise and got called by 4 people. Flop comes down Q6K rainbow. I follow up with another 40 bet and get 3 out of four callers. Next card comes a 5 and I check and they check down to river and K takes it.

This has happened almsot exactly to me on about 4 hands. Will traditional play not work on these people calling anything for the chase?
 
kmixer

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At the same table I just made a pot sized pot with AK suited and get a caller. Flop comes out Q52 so I go aggresive all in and get called and the donkey has Q5o

I knwo the all in was way too aggresive but really Q5?

Crazy this online game.
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

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Stop bluffing the calling stations.

Edit: Stop bluffing in micro limits

Edit: Stop bluffing period. You're bad at it.
 
Dwilius

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If people won't fold you should have the better hand. In multiway pots obviously you need to have the best hand, if you can isolate you just need a better hand. Try 6max if you're getting too many callers.
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

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Or better yet, make a hand and then bet and go "LOLOLOLOLZ YOU CALLED PREFLOP WITH QWAIN FIEV AND I TUK YER MONIES WITH PAGGET TOOOOZ ROFLCOPTERLMAO!!!~~~``111"

Like, seriously. You guys complain so much about *getting called too much*. That's like most poker players dream, getting called when they have a big hand. If you can't beat a game where they're calling too much, you have poker problems.
 
Steveg1976

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If you are getting called so much then it would seem obvious to just bet the crap out of your big hands and proceed cautiosly with TPWK type hands. This should be the meat and potatoes of your profits IMO. No money is made if they all fold crappy hands.
 
BelgoSuisse

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If I was at your table, i'd probably call your raise with ATC too. You are giving such wonderful implied odds that I think calling with 72o is still a money maker against you.
 
BelgoSuisse

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Also, while calling with crap is fishy, when you have a whole school of fishes calling your raises, it's not such a big error anymore as they all contribute to giving each other better calling odds.

The error you make is considering TPTK a monster in a multiway pot. Ace high on flop is worth crap, especially when you have no fold equity against stations

To beat micros, you need to bluff not at all, and value bet the hell out of your good hands. But remember that a good hand preflop is not necessarily a good hand postflop, especially with a lot of people seeing flop.

So, bet more preflop with premium, play all small PPs and connectors for cheap, throw away hands such as TPTK and lower unless you're heads up on the flop, value bet the hell out of your sets, straights and higher post flop. Don't get mad when you get sucked out: playing micro limits is a high variance game.
 
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nevadanick

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At the same table I just made a pot sized pot with AK suited and get a caller. Flop comes out Q52 so I go aggresive all in and get called and the donkey has Q5o

I knwo the all in was way too aggresive but really Q5?

Crazy this online game.

So, what's the size of a pf (unopened ?) pot on a nickel/dime table ?? A ton of live players would make this call, not just onliners. There's also no info on villain's stack or position.

Why is the Q5 a donkey? He only called a small pf bet. Holding your AKs, he's the hand you WANT to make a call. After the flop it went all bad. Well, let's say YOU made it all bad. All-in with nothing but A high?

After letting me see a cheap flop, YOU are the one I want at my table - when I hit the flop. (Live AND online).
.
 
Ronaldadio

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As everyone else has said, play your cards only.

I don`t play micro limits, but I can imagine. They won`t be watching what u or anyone else does, they will be playing their cards only. So the guy with Q5 would have lost to a bigger Q, etc.

What I will say which does not make sense at all is this...
At the same table I just made a pot sized pot with AK suited and get a caller. Flop comes out Q52 so I go aggresive all in and get called and the donkey has Q5o

You had determined that most of the people are calling stations, so u miss the flop by a mile and go all in with ace high??? What is that all about???
 
naruto_miu

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bluffing calling stations are the worst possible move a person can make, either ur dumb for bluffing in micro limits, or the ppl you were playing against were smart to the point that they had an excellent read on u. Either case bluffing should only be used at limtis where are actually somewhat smart, rather then those idiots at the penny level
 
aliengenius

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Was playing in a hand 05/10 at Full Tilt Poker and was BB with AQ suited. Called a 40 cent raise and got called by 4 people. Flop comes down Q6K rainbow. I follow up with another 40 bet

Let's review: you raise out of position to a too small amount (with four limpers your raise should be to around $0.75), then you make a super weak c-bet (0.40 into $2.00 pot) with middle pair into four calling station players.

And wonder why you lost?

Time to examine your own game and not worry so much about the "bad" play of others.
 
kmixer

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I have a lot to learn and that is why i am glad I found this place. I am learning a lot from you guys and I appreciate even the critcial review of my bad play.

I think on the AK I was just on tilt. I did say that I made a pot size pre flop bet though so I am not quite sure why that is a cheap bet?

What bet should I make with AK? If I make a 70 cent raise here and the Q5 calls. Do I then check the flop and if he bets into it do I fold AK with only a Q on the board? How much can I call up to? He has me beat by a mile. If he bets 10 cents after the flop 10 cents after the turn if I still do not my my A or K do I stay in. What if I do have my K? He still has me with Q5 (2 pair)
 
c9h13no3

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Do I then check the flop and if he bets into it do I fold AK with only a Q on the board?
Depends on the player. But in general, I c-bet a flop of Q52 for about 75% of the pot.

What if I do have my K? He still has me with Q5 (2 pair)
Yes, he still has you beaten with two pair. However, if you make a proper sized raise before the flop, and only have 100 big blinds in your stack, calling with Q5 will never be profitable as long as you fold when you have nothing. The odds of hitting two pair & trips are very low (less than 5% combined). Add that to the fact that you won't have anything often when he makes two pair or trips (and you'll fold), that makes his preflop call very un-profitable.

However. If you pay him even when you have nothing, you bluff away money, go on tilt, chase a K or A without odds, then yes, you will spew money to him over the long run.
 
kmixer

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c9...thanks I will keep that in mind for next time.
 
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