Are we ever folding this?

Jackle43

Jackle43

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Villian is a complete LAG fish who has been bluffing most his stack away.

Im On BTN with KcKs folds to me, I raise 3x SB folds and BB (LAGfish) calls.

Flop comes As 7c Jc
Fish checks I raise abit under pot size bet and fish pushes all in for $1.35

I think he is taking this line with a bluff or a Jack aswell. He is pushing most hands with nothing...

Fold?
 
starting_at_the_bottom

starting_at_the_bottom

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Raise more pre
You dont raise the flop, you bet the flop (you dont raise a check)
Even though you say they have been bluffing, they dont often check raise unless they have something (and from experience they would donk all in the flush draw). Given the relative size to call and poor ability im still calling here.
 
Jackle43

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I just found it hard to give him credit for the ace after seeing him take this same line with such weak hands.
 
Jackle43

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and why raise anymore then 3x on the BTN in an un raised pot..
That is my bet from BTN if its un raised, so im keeping consistency.
 
Jblocher1

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If he is LAG this is a definite call. If he has the ace you just got unlucky
 
Jackle43

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Yeah I ended up calling. He showed up with A4o
 
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carson

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hiding the strengh of your cards with a consistent three bet can be good but you have to take into consideration the level of play of your opponent.. in other words if your playing some that thinks only of their own hand (level1) then you dont want to hide the strengh of your hand to allow your oppenent to call with a weak ace even if it is the just the blinds. there is a fine line you cant always see but if your enjoying the gamble youve probably crossed it. knowing this player is reckless you need to adj your bet sizing to only play one level above him, the stubborn donk will eventually catch up with you. BRM is key. tough spot. call and take the bad beet and learn from it. the next time note any players that are level 1s. this will limit aace rag bad beets:)
 
Jackle43

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yeah fair point but with this player if i raised 22x he is still calling ace rag to see a flop.. haha
 
Jackle43

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im mainly asking about post flop play and i called only because he is so spewy, any other play did this move kings are getting mucked straight away.
 
Aces2w1n

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Yes he wins 1 hand.. but you may win the next 3... Eventually he'll outgrow his donk calls and you'll need to adjust again.
 
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RamdeeBen

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If you think villain is pushing this with a bluff and a jack a lot of the time, then I think you can answer this question yourself; easy call.

However; what makes you think villain is taking this line with bluffs and jx hands?

Also if villain really is a LAG fish; then make it 4x pre, he will call; thus more value.
 
youregoodmate

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Check back the flop. As played easy fold. If he really is that loose we can take him on another hand when we have more equity.
 
A2345Razz

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Against observant players that is true, but against idiots raise it up. They don't know/care.

If they are complete stations maybe....but....really here you want to be playing a pot IP against a lagtard donk.

3X is fine; im not sure why this other poster is pretending it isnt...
 
S93

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Jackle43

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Yeah, more I look at it it seems spewy, Though i dont even mind the flop bet that much, can easily use the ace as a scare card and take the pot right there...
But yes I agree it was a spewy play and I thought that as soon as i did it, Shouldve folded as soon as i got played back at. Just needed some confirmation.
The only reason i called was because he was so disgustingly loose that it seemed bad not to call at the time haha
 
S93

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Yeah, more I look at it it seems spewy, Though i dont even mind the flop bet that much, can easily use the ace as a scare card and take the pot right there...
But yes I agree it was a spewy play and I thought that as soon as i did it, Shouldve folded as soon as i got played back at. Just needed some confirmation.
The only reason i called was because he was so disgustingly loose that it seemed bad not to call at the time haha
So u dont mind turing your hand into a bluff when u actually have some value?
There are only 3 reasons you should ever bet, they are;
For value- when a worse hand will call.
As a bluff- when a better hand folds.
For dead money.

Betting the flop isnt really for value since even if he is a donk he is still folding most stuff that isnt Ax, there is some value to be made from Jx I suppose but there is a hell of a lot more Ax in his range then Jx.

Betting the flop isnt a bluff either because no better hand folds.

That leaves betting for dead money, sure taking the pot down know will get you that dead money but checking back doesnt change anything and gives a donk a chance to spazz out on later streets.

Bottom line is you are wa/wb so you should check back. That will minimize your lose against Ax in this spot and maximize it against ATC when he almost unavoidable bets the turn.

You really should read that link I posted because its one of the basic theory's of poker.
 
Jackle43

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Yeah I see your point I really do and I do agree completely.
Yeah I did read that and it did really help thankyouuu
 
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Jackle43

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Though I like taking Initiative in this spot. As I had been C betting most flops if I check it im almost letting him stab at the pot and by that point we can only assume he has an ace and fold when he possibly doesnt because this player came over the top with air almost everytime he was in a pot.
I know the all in call is spewy but I still do not mind the flop bet here.
 
S93

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Though I like taking Initiative in this spot. As I had been C betting most flops if I check it im almost letting him stab at the pot and by that point we can only assume he has an ace and fold when he possibly doesnt because this player came over the top with air almost everytime he was in a pot.
I know the all in call is spewy but I still do not mind the flop bet here.
You clearly dont understand wa/wb if this is your thought process.
Stop thinking about "taking initiative" and start thinking how to maximize your value, here is a hint, its by checking back and letting him stab at the pot.
 
benevg

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Yeah, more I look at it it seems spewy, Though i dont even mind the flop bet that much, can easily use the ace as a scare card and take the pot right there...
so basically, you want to use a scare card to scare away all the hands you beat, and get called by all the hands that beat you. ;) solid plan (not).

S93 said:
There are only 3 reasons you should ever bet, they are;
For value- when a worse hand will call.
As a bluff- when a better hand folds.
For dead money.
that seems outdated ;) betting "for dead money" is in effect the same as a bluff - you want to make the opponent fold incorrectly. so really, you either are bluffing or are value-betting, and the above achieves neither.
 
vinylspiros

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Since he is playing as LAG as you describe,its a call and if he has the ACE your just unlucky,but generally against any other type of player its a fold. unless your steaming from the ears and cant take any more of his RAISING.
 
blueskies

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If they are complete stations maybe....but....really here you want to be playing a pot IP against a lagtard donk.

3X is fine; im not sure why this other poster is pretending it isnt...

With a monster starting hand vs. someone who is very likely callin' ya anyway regardless of raise size, you wanna build up the pot.
 
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