Value Mutant hand, line check?? (NL10)

N

Navonod

Rising Star
Silver Level
Joined
Aug 20, 2012
Total posts
16
Chips
0
NL10 6-max (i'm new to table and have no history/stats/reads regarding villain. He seems to be playing pretty strt forward (he's folded mostly, open raised LP twice, once he won preflop once he folded to 3 bet....i GUESS he maybe is a little TAGGy) Villain is also up about half a buy in, for what it's worth.
I have 100BBs, villain covers.
I open 2.5X on the bttn with 8d8c
SB folds, BB calls.
Flop: Ac6s5s
BB checks. I bet 2/3 pot.
Trn: 8d
BB chcks. I bet 2/3 pot. BB calls.
River; 2s.
BB checks. Hero??
Pre-flop I bet for value
On the flop I think bet is OK. I can get value from draws and I feel like checking back would almost tie me to calling all turns and most rivers. Thoughts?
On the turn my hand picks up a ton of value as I can now cash in against AX/FD/Strt drw. Obvious bet. Maybe I should bet higher though, in hind sight it feels like I should be betting full pot. Thoughts?
On the river???? I am, for the first time in a while, completely lost in the hand. I am just super glad opponent didn't bet. Anyone go for a value bet here?
 
Last edited:
JCgrind

JCgrind

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Jun 28, 2012
Total posts
2,490
Chips
0
maybe 3/4 on the turn but i like the sizing. bet/fold river
 
N

Navonod

Rising Star
Silver Level
Joined
Aug 20, 2012
Total posts
16
Chips
0
Stacks sizes?
I edited my post after realizing i didn't mention the stack sizes and any info i did or didn't have on villain.
100bbs effective, not much info on villain.
 
youregoodmate

youregoodmate

Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
Joined
Jun 22, 2012
Total posts
2,683
Chips
0
I agree with all the above, bet/fold river.
 
Cafeman

Cafeman

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 12, 2011
Total posts
3,200
Chips
0
To be different, I'm going to give my opinion on what you should NOT do.

Do NOT x/c vs this straight forward TAG.
 
Last edited:
N

Navonod

Rising Star
Silver Level
Joined
Aug 20, 2012
Total posts
16
Chips
0
Cafeman,
I was in position. So, I can't ch/call. I can either ch back, bet/fold, or i guess bet/call (bet/get it in) are legal options as well. But, yeah, I guess the consensus is that I should be bet/folding. I just HATE the idea of villain check raising me here. I guess i felt like;
If my read is correct and this is a decent TAG he will fold a lot of his hands that I beat, although he may think my range should be pretty polarized and hero call with like AX. So I guess i was thinking villain prolly doesn't call with many second best hands, will raise me if I'm beat, and COULD even try a sicko raise if he thinks my range is polarized but SOMEHOW doesn't have a hand he can call with (That would be TERRIBLE) but I think over all I am missing value on the river by not merging much against decent players. A pro buddy of mine put it to me this way; he said that I need to start making thin v bets on the riv because bad players will call down light, good players will think i have a polarized range in these spots and call me w/ worse, and great players know that the trend among other good players is light value betting/bluff barelling scare cards so I will just get looked up A LOT more than i think. This dude has one Heartland title, a few wsop cashes, and over two million in online winnings pre- black friday, and he told me the biggest leak he sees in my game is that i'm still v betting the river like the circa 2006 TAG that I used to be.
Reading Raiser's Edge sort of confirmed a lot of what he was telling me.
I am actually suprised that this is not even debated (the check back in OP) and bet/fold seems to be the overwhelming consensus. I thought it was at least debatable; tells me i'm prolly not v betting river nearly enough if THIS is not even close.
BTW, what if villain leads out big on the river? Say he bet pot sized on the river, do I call?
And, one more question. Does the flop bet seem right? Does anyone check back flop?
 
Cafeman

Cafeman

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 12, 2011
Total posts
3,200
Chips
0
Oops, you were IP (perhaps use a hand converter next time for the older viewers like me haha). So yeah just bet an amount he'll call with his A or w.e. and fold to a raise if he's as straight forward as you suggested. He's unlikely to raise a good ace or even aces up, but he'll probs catch with them.
 
Cafeman

Cafeman

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 12, 2011
Total posts
3,200
Chips
0
BTW, what if villain leads out big on the river? Say he bet pot sized on the river, do I call?
Again, if your read is that he's straight forward then fold. He won't turn his SD hands into bluffs on the river enough to make calling a big bet here +EV.
And, one more question. Does the flop bet seem right? Does anyone check back flop?
Sometimes. Depends on villain and how he behaves post flop.
 
Cafeman

Cafeman

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Jan 12, 2011
Total posts
3,200
Chips
0
Me again :)

tells me i'm prolly not v betting river nearly enough
I think this is one of the biggest leaks that TAGs who 'runbad' have. When you check back the river and you win, mark the hand and go back and work out what went wrong, because you might more often than not find that you've left money on the table.
 
JCgrind

JCgrind

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Jun 28, 2012
Total posts
2,490
Chips
0
Cafeman,
But, yeah, I guess the consensus is that I should be bet/folding. I just HATE the idea of villain check raising me here. why? based on your description hes NEVER EVER doing it as a bluff, so youre only getting c/r'ed the tiny % of the time he has the nuts. srsly, if he has a flush with like mid suited connectors, hes prob just flatting I guess i felt like;
If my read is correct and this is a decent TAG he will fold a lot of his hands that I beat, although he may think my range should be pretty polarized and hero call with like AX.was gunna rage about this but you nailed it. all tags think like this when facing bets on all streets.. "TPGK OTF, im good. OTT, ye im probably good, ORT when draw doesnt make it he either has air or set+, more likely air, herocall time
So I guess i was thinking villain prolly doesn't call with many second best hands which is why lots of worse hands like AX will a 1/2ish PSB a high % of the time, will raise me if I'm beat, and COULD even try a sicko raise if he thinks my range is polarized but SOMEHOW doesn't have a hand he can call with (That would be TERRIBLE) but I think over all I am missing value on the river by not merging much against decent players.

A pro buddy of mine put it to me this way; he said that I need to start making thin v bets on the riv because bad players will call down light, good players will think i have a polarized range in these spots and call me w/ worse, and great players know that the trend among other good players is light value betting/bluff barelling scare cards so I will just get looked up A LOT more than i think. This dude has one Heartland title, a few WSOP cashes, and over two million in online winnings pre- black friday, and he told me the biggest leak he sees in my game is that i'm still v betting the river like the circa 2006 TAG that I used to be. LOL. but srsly, this is good advice

BTW, what if villain leads out big on the river? Say he bet pot sized on the river, do I call? im checking his AggF specifically on the river before i make a decision

And, one more question. Does the flop bet seem right? Does anyone check back flop?
vil dependent, but vs this guy im pretty sure you got it right. id barrel it anyway, lots of value to be had[/QUOTE]
 
Starting Hands - Poker Hand Nicknames Rankings - Poker Hands
Top