Value Betting people on a draw Question

S

Scriv1989

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Hey All,

I have a question around equity and Value betting when you believe your opponent may be drawing to a straight or flush.

I read an article on Equity that states you want to get the most money in the middle when you have better than 50% equity. So when you have the best of it then you want to jam the pot as its more profitable to do so.

Can I ask then.. if you put your opponent on a flush or straight draw.. do you bet to get them to call hoping they miss.. or do you bet to take the pot there and then. According to my statement above I think I should be trying to get them to call and then be able to fold if they hit?

Cheers!
 
R

RegiTime

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It has to depend on our opponent.

As a rule, if we think we have the best hand and we think our opponent is drawing, we should bet as much as we think they will call while making sure we're not giving them the correct odds to draw.

When it's written down like that, it looks incredibly simple. It's of course, not as easy as that but it's a decent starting point.
 
westside1950

westside1950

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Definittly try to bet strong in that case, the main thing is that you don't give them good price for drawing.
If your opponents calls you on the flop and you think he is drawing, definitly bet strong on the turn. If if he calls you and hits the river, even if you pay him off sometimes, you will definitly make money in the long run...
 
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pompii

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What would you do if you get check raised on a two flush board? But you believe you have the best hand w/ a tptk sort of hand.
 
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CactusCat

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What are your observations of the player? Is he highly active and playing tricky after the flop? All you need is to see a few involved hand histories where he went to showdown. Then you replay the hand knowing how he played top-pair, a set, a draw, etc. and go through his thought process. Did he slowplay the flop, then spring the trap on the turn against other players? Then use this in conjunction with your read and how much strength you've represented, and think if the story checks out.

Once you have a 10-15 such hands, you can start playing better to extract value and losing less.

It's really hard to develop reads on strangers. The more hands he does this with that you beat - you don't beat any of the set combinations, are there two pair combinations that make sense? If he only ever does this with made hands, on K65, you can let go of a pair because his turn check-raising range has you beat. If he does this with draws, and you hold an overpair and there are possible weaker overpairs (say you have KK on 238), you can be more inclined to reraise, call, shove. If you call, and the turn and river blanks out, be prepared to call down. Sometimes you'll be wrong, but what's important is that the odds are more in your favor the wider his range is.

I usually try to play smaller pots with strangers until I get them. Unless you're playing on a mega-site like pokerstars, you will eventually find regulars and as you understand them better you'll get better at taking their money.
 
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westside1950

westside1950

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What would you do if you get check raised on a two flush board? But you believe you have the best hand w/ a tptk sort of hand.

Depends of the opponent, I'd say.

If he's loose maniac that I believe would barell his stack off in case he misses his draw - I would just call him all the way, if a third flush comes on turn/river I might consider folding.

If he's nit or abc player I would 4 bet him (If - like you say - I believe I'm ahead)... if he's drawing he would probably just call for expensive price and if he pushes all-in then I would get a confirmation that I'm definitly not ahead as I tought and would probably fold.
 
2Pacavelli

2Pacavelli

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you have to make a value bet, where the odds the opponent to call become unprofitable in the long run , so you give him the chance of making a mistake.
 
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dsk1231

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You want to build the pot without pricing them in. In the long run you're helping them dump their money. Also know your villians playing styles and don't pay someone off if you're sure they hit.
 
alfiyka

alfiyka

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if you have a very strong hand --a lot can be put. Although I lost I s T T
 
alfiyka

alfiyka

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a bad translation. There is much to lose and with two aces.The main rule is not to put all the money.
 
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GWU73

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If opponent likes to call, bet more.

If you get check raised you have to consider the opponent. Is he nitty and only check raising sets? Is he very aggressive & spewey; likely to check raise a draw? Is he tricky? (A tricky player might CR TPGK+, & weak bottom or under pairs. Or call a small bet TPWK, MP, and draws.) Then figure how you compare to his likely holding.
 
Last edited:
limpnfold88

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Hey All,

I have a question around Equity and Value betting when you believe your opponent may be drawing to a straight or flush.

I read an article on Equity that states you want to get the most money in the middle when you have better than 50% equity. So when you have the best of it then you want to jam the pot as its more profitable to do so.

Can I ask then.. if you put your opponent on a flush or straight draw.. do you bet to get them to call hoping they miss.. or do you bet to take the pot there and then. According to my statement above I think I should be trying to get them to call and then be able to fold if they hit?

Cheers!

In general you want people with draws to call you. If you're positive that your opponent's entire range is some kind of draw, you should be getting two streets of value and then if the board bricks out and you're first to act, you should almost check to induce bluffs. If your read is correct, then they will basically be forced to bet when they miss, and you can easily check/call with one pair or even worse.
 
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