Understanding your Online Opponents.

I continually debated on topics amongst forums to post

I want to get into one technique of reading an opponent.

The speed at which one bets.

quick check vs. elongated check/minimal bet.

I find when you have a quick check to you must take more caution than a pot bet or an elongated check.

A. If they quick check.
they either have.
A. something good, and they will slow call *for slowplay*
B something decent, but they don't feel they have the chips to bet.
c. nothing.
-this situation can easily be understood by a minimal bet. 2/3pot bet ok.

Now a pot bet.
A. Chip leader wants the pot with an A.
B. Has top pair but is scared to let you see any more cards.
c. Is that solid player you know is betting with a good hand.
b. any 2 cards - is a donk don't mind him his mom never taught him right from wrong. Take his money on average and be happy in the overall span.
-This is already understood without paying nothing.

Elongated Check
A. no one has nothing, but the better questions who's willing to do some thing about it.
B. they are slow playing the everything.
C. they have a small pair looking for 2 or trips.
D. they want to make you believe they got somthing worth contemplating?
E. they actually do have something worth contemplating.
-This is never understood, and may never be. Check and be Confused. Hope you don't get the acting job.

Now which one costed you the most?

The quick check.....it makes you think you can get away with something that you might not. Bet small, it always seems better.

I think it's tough to tell reads, especially online vs live play.

In live play I find the QUICK bets that lead to an all in, are stone cold bluffs.

In net play I can't pick up on anything, the fast bet can mean either. But I notice someone who take ALL THEIR time, then pushes is DEF sitting with the best hand. I think it's hard to believe they need all that time just to immediately risk ALL of their stack, being so 'unsure' of their hands standing. Then pushing when they didn't need to, I never saw it as a bluff move, which in my games, hasn't been. It's online acting.

Dear Tom......

WHAT?????????:questionm :hmmmm2:

I am debating what is more confusing to respond to.
What plays are made with these set ups.

I wanted to discuss how you can read into a opponent based on his average time of playing vs. when hes trying to make a move.

The quick all in I have said nothing about in the above passage.

BTW calling quick all ins is always scary. Most people don't bluff in any tournament with more than 6 hands. I mean if you have some out of position over raise I usually give them credit for a AK, AA, QQ. Something.

But yes you always get that player obviously over betting, if you've got a a good hand call.

Only donkeys play the junk push it all in like that! (mostly in freerolls)
DONKEYS DON'T GET PAID

THEY MAY WIN THE POT, BUT THEY DON'T GET PAID.

What Im trying to do is give an insight to another perception of what a player needs to do in order to receive reads on opponents based on his average action in hands.

If a normally tight player, takes a long time to make a call.
Does it again on the turn.
You have to put him on a good pair or better.
:If you have nothing the fold is easy:
:If you have something you should have an idea what he could have:

If he slow checks.
:He could have anything:

Showing a perception on how its easier to play a bet, than it is a slow check.

on a check you must determine how much you would need to bet, should you bet, and do I raise?

on a bet, its is simply raise/fold/call. Usually someone on a good hand will let you know he has top pair, trips, or something.

Betting ahead of you makes it easy to fold hands that you might call if it was just the blind preflop.

so if they quick check they either have something or nothing, gotcha! lol most of the time when people quick check against me they have nothing most of the time cos they are impatient.

You can make plenty of reads. Not near the reads you can in person.

But there are ways to make reads.

Plenty.

The quick check V elongated check....
A quick check from late position may actually involve much thought.
An elongated check is usually someone playing 3 screens at once, having connection problems or a Chris Ferguson want-a-be.

It was late last night, when I wrote this. 2 am or so.
I am also very new to this (forum posting)

I wanted to talk about how you have to work harder to make reads when everyone is checking.

I wanted to talk about how if someone bets to you...and you have to make a responce....how it is easier to make to make that response if there is a quick check.

Yes you can hit the auto set check if you have the nuts, or are multi-tabling, or have nothing, something and you don't want to bet.

If you actually had something, you must wait until it is your turn to make an according read based on the action in front of you. Once its your turn (If you are already on that tournaments screen) You must now choose to raise/check/fold. If the player does not fold, but takes a long time....The question you must ask is what are they thinking about. You make your descion on paying to see more cards on the table to read your opponent to determine at the end of the 5 community cards if you have the best hand to make a final bet.

If you have a hand. You want to win chips with it.

If you are in a hand and you have 2 other players in it with you.

You are in best position, and both people check to you.
-You have High Pair decent kicker, but everyone quick checks to you.

You make your bet on the pot, one person slow calls.

To help you understand the point I'm trying to make, the rest of the hand matters none.

- online poker is very hard to make reads, so how should a person tune their game so that they can make accurate reads.
A. Bet the flops, turns, and rivers at which allow more accurate reads.
(Community Cards that provide less possibilities)
B. Checking slow checked crazy possibilities not risking your chips on hands which could allow more "cooler" hands, and have increased caller potential.
C. Making reads on a player based on his overall play.
D. Understanding that the nuts will be slowbet/checkraised/sucked to
E. Most of that starts with quick checks.

I believe people in a majority play this way due to the amount of greed instilled donks out there trying to steal every pot under the sun.

You can make decent calls on how a player plays by hit betting versus the pot on the first hand that is revealed. Make a quick note. If you've seen him slowplay once, odds are he'll do it again.

A. When they check to you cannot make a read, unless you bet.

B. When they bet to you, based on that players style you can only make an ASSUMPTION as in all poker Into whether your hand is better.

That question can cost you nothing by choosing to fold, and picking a hand to which you have better odds. Or raising if you think your hand is better.

-Usually B involves more thought on your opponents part in putting a price on the preflop cards in hand. I have an easy escape that cost me nothing, I risk nothing, and I can gain some knowledge about the player plays for future reference.

- When a pot is checked to me. Say I have 89 in the BB, and the flop comes
853.
I dont have a bad hand, and when everyone checks to me. I want to bet.

If someone bets I can fold, and know that more than likly I would have lost.

If no one bets, I think I might have the pot. So I make a minimal bet. 2/3pot so that I can see if I have the best hand in the pot.

Thats why I'm more scared of the slowchecks that the bets.

I think I can sum it up a little better.

on average.

pot betting is used for decent/good hands/sometimes bluffs usually in good position.

You can play however you want if you have the nuts. Look for something odd.
Odd checking should indicate extra thought.

Quick checking should indicate a player knows what they have. But they want to see what you want to do with what you have. Don't bet these pots too high because if they are going to fold, it will be for cheap. If they were going to raise it dose not matter how much you were going to bet. If they were going to call, they were going to call just about anything.

I totally exclude donks, I've learned you have to try to play like they don't exsist. Helps me accept things.

The reason i never pay much attention to speed of action in online play is you simple dont know if the player on the other site of the internet had to go anwser the phone or had his computer lag on him, there could be a hundred reason why he checked quikly or slowly and because u dont know is the reason its a pointless way to judge a hand imo.
betting paterns are a much better indication of players strenght/weakness but u obvs. have to have a history on him so that becomes a good way to read him.

Its another way. Yeah if they have a good hand I'm assuming they are paying attention to it. Nothing in poker is definite, and any information you obtain is not pointless. I have won many pots with bet timing understanding. The lag is honestly the biggest problem due to this tech, I give you kudos for that statement.

Taking it deeper on how he likes to bet always benefits you in read situations. Its not everything, nor do I have a poker tracker software set up. I can look thought 1,000 recent hands in time, or get a feel for how hes playing it.

Well i understand what your saying but i still disagree. For example your dealt AA some one raises infront and at that exact moment the doorbell rings. Do you ignore the doorbell? or quikly 3-bet and run to the door and then run back to play the rest of the hand?
My statment of it beeing pointless might been alitle overboard but i much rather depend on notes,betting patern and/or PT/HM stats then timing.

Basing your bets and calls on the timing of another opponent just doesn't make much sense as I use the time for things from posting/checking my email/fixing myself something to eat or even going for a quick tinkle, regardless of my cards.
I also understand what your saying about timing and how you could get some reads out of it, but for the most part, they are totally unreliable without good reads using the above concepts sindri had mentioned.

Dude - How many times you gonna post on your own thread...till you hit 50? You got ten posts on this thread and mine makes twenty total...

Anyway, I think going off time to play online can be a very big mistake - One I made early on.

Sometimes it is just a slow/bad connection or someone taking a wizz and not a delayed call/bet. I personally vary my response time often in a game regardless the cards just to throw people off...

As I am typing this, I just read the comment above from shinedown.45...DITTO.

GL and tell us if this ever ends up working for you. My guess is seldom.

the only thing

I would like to add to this post is that i like to use slow betting to my advantage to make myself look weak....if i know i have the winning hand and ecspecially if i am playing against an aggressive opponent...i will let my timer run down to make myself look weak ...like i am thinking about my hand and i think my opponent reads that as being weak and will most likely bet out at which point i can take my time then re raise and hopefully he will go all in over top of me....try it sometime and see what happens.

Don't forget, there are tons of multi-tabling players out there. Bet timing can be way off with these guys.