Twoturntablez Attempt at beating 2nl

twoturntablez

twoturntablez

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 24, 2010
Total posts
425
Chips
0
Hi there,

Ive been lurking in the the dark corners and hanging around in the shadows for a while now, and havnt given out much advice to anyone at all, because Im the one who needs it lol.

I have been playing poker for a couple of years, play online quite a bit. Dont deposit, scratch up a roll here and there from freerolls etc, begin to think Im an ok player then take a few shots here and there to devastate said roll. Or look forward to some poker and a few drinks etc. Well no more of that. Concentration and bankroll management with no tilting allowed from now on.

Well I got back on the horse at stars a few weeks back and played a few thousand hands. I did some research read a bit of Ed Miller and Sklansky, read a few strategy articles here. Scanned the hand analysis threads. Tried to put it into practice.

I just got a new computer and have been in the process of setting HEM up, got it going for stars but BCP does not yet bring up the HUD during play despite having the hands from tourneys, got to look into that.

So I thought Id go through some sort of review after each 1 or 2 thousand hands and try to identify and fix my holey bucket of leaks.

I know I fall in love with my cards too much and pay off with KK AA because Im just supposed to win most of them, however Im losing big pots and not getting enough big pots myself so I must be doing something wrong here. Definitely seems its the big pots that are hurting my chances of profit as the graph trends have generally shown gradual increase...... then boom down she goes... gradual increase... boom repeated.

Thanks for the words of encouragement from some of you I talked to already, lets see if I can do something about it.

Just reviewed my first 1000 hands and unfortunately Im just giving money away. Embarrasing hand that came in the first few of the session.

poker stars $0.01/$0.02 No Limit Hold'em - 9 players
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

CO: $1.97
BTN: $2.63
SB: $0.70
BB: $3.70
UTG: $2.20
UTG+1: $2.28
UTG+2: $2.00
Hero (MP1): $2.00
MP2: $1.90

Pre Flop: ($0.03) Hero is MP1 with Q Q
1 fold, UTG+1 raises to $0.12, UTG+2 calls $0.12, Hero raises to $0.32, 6 folds, UTG+2 raises to $2 all in, Hero calls $1.68 all in

Flop: ($4.15) J J 4 (2 players - 2 are all in)

Turn: ($4.15) 9 (2 players - 2 are all in)

River: ($4.15) 6 (2 players - 2 are all in)

Final Pot: $4.15
UTG+2 shows K K (two pair, Kings and Jacks)
Hero shows Q Q (two pair, Queens and Jacks)
UTG+2 wins $4.00
(Rake: $0.15)

Here, I thought I was beaten but still I need to learn to give up I guess. Its conceivable he'd have gone for it if I jammed anyway.

Poker Stars $0.01/$0.02 No Limit Hold'em - 8 players
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

BB: $2.00
UTG: $1.54
Hero (UTG+1): $2.38
MP1: $3.97
MP2: $3.57
CO: $2.14
BTN: $2.06
SB: $2.01

Pre Flop: ($0.03) Hero is UTG+1 with 2 2
1 fold, Hero raises to $0.08, MP1 calls $0.08, 1 fold, CO calls $0.08, 1 fold, SB calls $0.07, 1 fold

Flop: ($0.34) 5 3 2 (4 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $0.32, MP1 calls $0.32, CO folds, SB folds

Turn: ($0.98) 4 (2 players)
Hero bets $0.30, MP1 calls $0.30

River: ($1.58) T (2 players)
Hero bets $0.36, MP1 raises to $0.72, Hero calls $0.36

Final Pot: $3.02
Hero mucks 2 2
MP1 shows Q A (a straight, Ace to Five)
MP1 wins $2.91
(Rake: $0.11)

I wonder if I could have made more money here, I obviously didnt like the call fest pre.

Poker Stars $0.01/$0.02 No Limit Hold'em - 8 players - View hand 1835860
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

UTG+1: $2.00
MP1: $1.70
Hero (MP2): $2.00
CO: $4.05
BTN: $3.57
SB: $2.22
BB: $2.15
UTG: $2.00

Pre Flop: ($0.03) Hero is MP2 with A A
2 folds, MP1 calls $0.02, Hero raises to $0.08, CO calls $0.08, 1 fold, SB calls $0.07, BB calls $0.06, MP1 calls $0.06

Flop: ($0.40) 7 4 Q (5 players)
SB checks, BB checks, MP1 bets $0.08, Hero raises to $0.48, CO folds, SB folds, BB folds, MP1 folds

This was a weird one, but might show how Im not getting value out of hands, I tend to think Im going to push people out of pots when I have the nuts or close and sometimes dont bet as much as I could get away with in hindsight.

Poker Stars $0.01/$0.02 No Limit Hold'em - 8 players - View hand 1835865
DeucesCracked Poker Videos Hand History Converter

CO: $1.66
BTN: $4.90
SB: $0.40
Hero (BB): $2.71
UTG: $1.04
UTG+1: $0.77
MP1: $0.51
MP2: $2.09

Pre Flop: ($0.03) Hero is BB with J 4
4 folds, CO calls $0.02, 1 fold, SB calls $0.01, Hero checks

Flop: ($0.06) 5 3 6 (3 players)
SB checks, Hero bets $0.06, CO raises to $0.12, SB folds, Hero calls $0.06

Turn: ($0.30) 7 (2 players)
Hero bets $0.12, CO calls $0.12

River: ($0.54) 9 (2 players)
Hero bets $0.34, CO calls $0.34

Well Im ready for the onslaught and will try to have more interesting and tricky spots in the future.

The first 1k hands and Im $1.71 down.
$EV diff shows $1.34 in green. Is this a good thing?

GL all
 
BelgoSuisse

BelgoSuisse

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 26, 2007
Total posts
9,218
Chips
0
1 buy-in down after 1k hand is purely variance.

If you want to figure out obvious leaks, you should post the HEM reports stats. Probably more informative than hands at first.

your bet sizing seems a bit random at times. The 3bet with QQ is pretty small. And the preflop raise with AA seems not to take into account the fact there is one limper in the pot already.

Also, 8-handed, you might want to fold 22 preflop in EP, but maybe i'm wrong there as i don't play 2nl.
 
twoturntablez

twoturntablez

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 24, 2010
Total posts
425
Chips
0
1 buy-in down after 1k hand is purely variance.
Well, I have considerably changed my cash game style and am 11 buyins down over 25k hands. I think I was running about 20/5 eeeurch.

If you want to figure out obvious leaks, you should post the HEM reports stats. Probably more informative than hands at first.
OK here goes.

your bet sizing seems a bit random at times. The 3bet with QQ is pretty small. And the preflop raise with AA seems not to take into account the fact there is one limper in the pot already.
I'll look into this.

Also, 8-handed, you might want to fold 22 preflop in EP, but maybe i'm wrong there as i don't play 2nl.
Yes, I think its fine to fold 22 in EP however have come accross suggestions that any pair can be worth 4bb to see if you get a set on the flop. Clearly in this spot it wasnt any where nearly as valuable as a A92 flop. More input on ditching low PP in early position please guys.

Thanks for your input
 

Attachments

  • untitled.JPG
    untitled.JPG
    61.3 KB · Views: 181
  • untitled1.JPG
    untitled1.JPG
    62.7 KB · Views: 183
  • untitled2.JPG
    untitled2.JPG
    62.4 KB · Views: 185
Arjonius

Arjonius

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Jun 8, 2005
Total posts
3,167
Chips
0
When you're at a table that where limpers seldom get raised, it's okay to set mine by limping small pairs in EP. Not great, just okay - folding them is alright too.

Unless you have specific reasons, don't open-raise with them. It's too easy to end up seeing flops OOP with hands that only have two outs to improve. Most of the 85-90% of the time you miss, you'll check-fold. These instances cost a lot more if you raised pre-.
 
M

MiddlePair

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Jun 26, 2012
Total posts
270
Chips
0
Raise from the button more often!
 
BelgoSuisse

BelgoSuisse

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Nov 26, 2007
Total posts
9,218
Chips
0
Can you post your position report? I looks like you are playing too many hands in EP and way too few on the BTN.

Also, your aggression stats are on the low side. The gap between VPIP and PFR is a bit too large. Limp and flat call less, raise more. Also you probably don't cbet enough, but that may be due to playing oop too often because of your positional preflop play.

Finally, WTSD% seems a little low to me given that you play reasonably tight preflop. Probably folding the best hand a little too often. But that may just be the small sample size.
 
twoturntablez

twoturntablez

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 24, 2010
Total posts
425
Chips
0
Thanks Belgo, here we go.
 

Attachments

  • position.JPG
    position.JPG
    68.6 KB · Views: 170
RodneyC86

RodneyC86

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Jul 15, 2012
Total posts
592
Chips
0
Well see you should be playing more hands the closer you are to the button. Granted your 1k hands small sample might be skewing away from your actual play style but the small PFR cutoff and button is worrying.

Those two positions should be your most profitable positions to play from. I can post my 2nl stats over 30k hands as proof (okay maybe proof is too strong a word for poker)

Most newbies have the wrong idea that acting first allows them to be deceptive or apply straight up pressure by chucking chips into the pot first but that is actually suicidal. In position, you control pot size better, you get to choose to see the next card for free or not, etc.

Also, preflop, when unopened, being in the cutoff or button means you have to get less villains to fold before you nick the blinds.
 
acky100

acky100

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 22, 2010
Total posts
3,523
Chips
0
You need to stop calling so much in the small blinds, and raising more when it folds around to you and you think the guy will fold a lot or you have a pretty solid hand, Stop completing from the small blind even though it only costs 1 cent, its just going to be spewing money away i'm sure.

You really need to open a hell of a lot more on the button and cut off, especially the button! Look at your steal percentage it should be ATLEAST 30, yeah, open really wide on the button, when someone limps in you should be isolating pretty wide from the button too, if they fold to c-bets a lot go ahead and isolate super super wide, if they dont fold to c-bets a lot, maybe stick to something like A2s+ A8o+ K7s+ K8o+ Q8s+ Q9o+ J8s+ JTo, T9o+ 98s, 87s, and all pocket pairs, (if they really dont fold to cbets you can drop pocket pairs under 66) ... That's just an example range of how wide i would be isolating someone on the button who doesnt fold to cbets very much, i made it in about 20 seconds so its just a rough range but still, guessing at the moment you're isolating people way too tight, note when people do fold to c-bets i'm pretty happy isolating with ATC a lot of the time on the button.
 
twoturntablez

twoturntablez

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 24, 2010
Total posts
425
Chips
0
Positional results and lol graph from session no2.

Things werent going great in this session, no sets and couple of good hands lost. At 1800 hands I thought just persevere and get to 2000 maybe something will show up in the reports that I can get help with. Havnt reviewed my hands yet but Im sure there a couple I have to post. It was great to pick up 3 all ins at the end of the session to get me back to square one.
 

Attachments

  • position2.JPG
    position2.JPG
    70.8 KB · Views: 162
  • recovery.JPG
    recovery.JPG
    56.3 KB · Views: 162
twoturntablez

twoturntablez

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 24, 2010
Total posts
425
Chips
0
When you're at a table that where limpers seldom get raised, it's okay to set mine by limping small pairs in EP. Not great, just okay - folding them is alright too.
Im not very happy limping in early position, I do seem to get raised too often and find the fold button fairly quickly, I did adjust a little this last session to limping with some <88 pairs in MP and let go of the 223344 UTG and UTG+1.

One of the other reasons I havnt been limping in early position is to try to keep the VPIP/PFR gap closer, I really feel like Im playing tight but obv Im not, as we can see looking at the position report. Shocking in fact. The EP VPIP must come from raises, I thought I was playing tight early, A10 is out the window, sometimes I wont open AJo from UTG, when I do I feel like "uhoh here we go". KQs is a hand Im probably not playing enough in much later positions as well and let it go UTG. I will have to have a good look at what Im playing in EP on HEM.

Most newbies have the wrong idea that acting first allows them to be deceptive or apply straight up pressure by chucking chips into the pot first but that is actually suicidal. In position, you control pot size better, you get to choose to see the next card for free or not, etc.

Yeah okay. I am chucking chips in with EP raises 99+ AK AQ, Cbetting flops that I think can handle it but yes, I probably do Raise Pre, then check fold flop too much. I wonder if I can find out easily whether this is working or not.

You need to stop calling so much in the small blinds, and raising more when it folds around to you and you think the guy will fold a lot or you have a pretty solid hand, Stop completing from the small blind even though it only costs 1 cent, its just going to be spewing money away i'm sure.

Yup OK, what kind of range can I complete with? Or is it a case of if its good enough to complete I should raise? Im kinda hoping that anyone paying attention will see Im not in so many pots and that a call from the SB means Im not holding utter crap. But then I try not to overthink things here at 2nl because apparently nobody thinks much at 2nl.

You really need to open a hell of a lot more on the button and cut off, especially the button! Look at your steal percentage it should be ATLEAST 30, yeah, open really wide on the button, when someone limps in you should be isolating pretty wide from the button too, if they fold to c-bets a lot go ahead and isolate super super wide, if they dont fold to c-bets a lot, maybe stick to something like A2s+ A8o+ K7s+ K8o+ Q8s+ Q9o+ J8s+ JTo, T9o+ 98s, 87s, and all pocket pairs
Whoa there, I need to raise to what, 8c/10c if theres one limper to isolate him with the above range? Are we expecting folds most of the time for a good result here or is it that we are getting folds after the villains preflop call to our Cbet?

This is good, I like it, Im going to have another study session before I play the next 1000 hands and look over the suggestions so far and rethink my Early position and late position play. It does appear that a lot of you guys are super aggressive and have great confidence in that what you are doing makes sense and works long run. I need to build these habits and get that confidence.

I am stunned to see that about a quarter of the hands Ive played are from early position, it doesnt make sense to me. What are you guys doing with AJo? Im definitely letting go of A10 A9 KQ KJ in early position and if im playing then im never limping early. I try to listen to the saying "never limp", but these stats are coming from somewhere. Ok its late and time for bed.

Thanks for your input.
 
acky100

acky100

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 22, 2010
Total posts
3,523
Chips
0
If you're going to play 77 and lower in EP's just raise, limping is meh. I'm folding AJo UTG a ton, unless the blinds are big fish in which case i'll open it, unless i expect to get a few callers IP to me in which case i'll probably just ditch it again.


You can complete the small blind with pretty hands when like a fish limps like 77 and lower if the fish isn't going to fold to c-bets, suited connectors and stuff, but really if theres a fish that limps you should just be raising instead of completing with good hands like TJo, QTo, 99 etc etc...



your positional report above is nice from EP if you stop limping small pairs, pretty bad habit to get into even though it probably is fine at 2nl, although i'd just raise them if theres fish behind that will pay me when i hit.

Later positions are just horrible, your stats dont seem like you are positionally aware at all, apart from beign tight in EP. Position is so important, open more hands when you have it please!
 
dooydoo

dooydoo

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Feb 13, 2012
Total posts
265
Chips
0
even though i play 6max hopefully this will help you get the idea of some basic positional things. This is all at 2nl on stars.

NOTE: TOT limpers pfr = total raise limpers preflop. And yes you should be raising a wide value range. T8s is a premium in that spot.

2nll.jpg
 
twoturntablez

twoturntablez

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 24, 2010
Total posts
425
Chips
0
Cheers for that Dooydoo, nice winrate for 6max, Im playing full ring.

Another few hundred hands till 3k will post some stats, not changing so much just yet but have recovered and have 4bb/100. Going out to live tourney tonight will hopefully find time to get to 3k hands and post some.
 
twoturntablez

twoturntablez

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 24, 2010
Total posts
425
Chips
0
An ok night at the tourney, got 4th for a free buyin and addon next week. My lady got 3rd so we got our money back and a little petrol. Had lots of fun with My 3bet AK getting top pair, move allin over the caller who had 2 pr A10 on flop, I got the K on the river. First hand final table in the bb with 10 10, Button Jams all in. I have 8bb and he has me covered, never played this guy before and tank for a while. I put him on AK or some broadway kind of hand, and think eh well, I flip for some chips. he shows QQ.
First card a Q, then 10 9 J8 for a split phew. Blinds rise fast and go 500/1k, 1k/2k,4k/8k so becomes a shove fest quickly. Not my night and I move in on the bb with Q8s, sb called and thinks for a while before calling with Q9 and thats me.
Lovely lady makes her tiny stack last and try as they might cant knock her out and she hangs on with a coulple of blinds and cant get a hand on the button. First hand of headsup AA, vs QQ and Q's flop a set.

Come home and play to 3200 hands and have a nice session 7.5bb/100, feels like I played the button wider but we shall see. Had a rough start but got some nice hands in pots against fish. Opening wider on the button and c betting and being rewarded with folds was getting me more action when I raised in MP with great hands. On one particular table I was running 20/20 and getting action with my good hands. Sitting with position on fish is so important. For some time I have been marking players and can tell quite easily in the lobby who the sharks are. Anyone I have more than a hundred hands on and is like 7/4 -10/10 Im marking red, for warning when Im in pots with them. Anyone with +24 vpip and a large gap like 24/6 up to crazy idiots like 45/8 get yellow for fish, 15/15 or players who seem to know what they are doing get orange and go red when they show they are good and I keep light blue for Maniacs. This way I can see how many players are holding a red tag in the lobby, its quite surprising that there are around 3 on a lot of the tables I would like to join. The fish marked yellow are hard to find so Im going up the lobby from the 30+vpip table to around 24 and still finding some good fish with only one red marked player. If I have one of these in the blinds when I have the button I do find I get some folds.

Well, shall have a study session before I play again and will not play a hand until I have reviewed my play when folded to on the CO and button. Since this is one area you are all recommending I need to address I will post some hands with stats that perhaps I should have gone for a raise with. I guess its the post flop decisions in these kind of pots that seperate winning some blinds and bleeding some chips.

Heres another report that may highlight other areas to think about/work on.

Cheers and GL
 

Attachments

  • stats 3200.JPG
    stats 3200.JPG
    81.7 KB · Views: 129
G

GWU73

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 18, 2012
Total posts
785
Chips
0
Ok, my opinion may be a little differnt than most here, but here it is:
Loosen up your open raise requirements for the button, and cut off substantially. Any suited Ace, any 2 Broadway, A8+, any pair, maybe a few more hands.

Be willing to fold AQ, QQ and lower to a 4 bet shove.

I like the small pair open raise from UTG. I would also include JTs+, Ak and AQ if you play 6max. Hand values go up for big cards and pairs.

Be willing to fold sets with a 4straight, or 4 flush on the board.

Increase raise sizes with players in the pot.

Fold more from the SB, and BB. If you do open in the SB, make sure you are raising and that you are playing somone who you feel you can outplay fromout of position.

With your really big hands, your goal should be to get money in the pot early if possible. If it is not remember that AA and KK are still only one pair hands.

Also, I am not a fan of weak set mining. Open limping is begging somone to take your money. For me open raising small pairs utg in 6max and full ring has been profitable, but open limping has cost me. I will limp behind if no one behind me likes to squeeze.

I understand that there are many winning styles, but for me Playing about 25% of my hands in 6max and about 18% in full ringworks best.
 
twoturntablez

twoturntablez

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 24, 2010
Total posts
425
Chips
0
open really wide on the button, when someone limps in you should be isolating pretty wide from the button too, if they fold to c-bets a lot go ahead and isolate super super wide, if they dont fold to c-bets a lot, maybe stick to something like A2s+ A8o+ K7s+ K8o+ Q8s+ Q9o+ J8s+ JTo, T9o+ 98s, 87s, and all pocket pairs, (if they really dont fold to cbets you can drop pocket pairs under 66) ... That's just an example range of how wide i would be isolating someone on the button who doesnt fold to cbets very much

Ive been thinking about this for days now, and have tried to implement it into my play but only crept up a couple of points in steal and raise first OTB.

This range is for people who dont fold to Cbets very often so please correct me if Im wrong but in these scenarios lets say I have K10o and there was one limper. Im going to make it 4bb+1 for the limper to isolate. What % do I want folds right here? Is this mission accomplished or do I actually want a call.

If he doesnt fold to cbets often and limp calls, I miss the flop, what next? we know he doesnt fold to cbets so if he donks into my missed flop am I giving up? If he checks do I cbet knowing he doesnt fold?

I know these situations are so dependant on many factors but as a general thing are we hoping to steal the blinds most of the time and get called some of the time, cbet and make enough over time to pay for the times we miss and have to give up?

Hopefully my ramblings make sense, anyone care to ramble?
 
twoturntablez

twoturntablez

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 24, 2010
Total posts
425
Chips
0
Cheers dooydoo, nice article. Thanks gwu73. The link to the other article is good also.
 
twoturntablez

twoturntablez

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 24, 2010
Total posts
425
Chips
0
Yesssssss!

Thank you Acky, you got me thinking and acting differently OTB. I cant bring myself to raise with your entire posted range but have opened up a LOT. Doing this and getting the folds is fantastic, Im making it 5bb with 1 limper into the pot, its easily a profitable move. If I get a good hand right after Im open raising 5bb, I had an average steal hand that worked then pick up AK JJ type hand and get no credit and called light. Since reading how important seat selection was Ive really paid attention to whos on my left and whos on my right. Whereas I used to open 8 tables then just mash the fold button, raise with good hands, kinda playing from the imprinted chart im my head.... Im thinking about whos after me, what do their stats say they will do, can I manipulate this fish into making a mistake? Its just awesome looking at an 8/4 and 17/6 OTB raising with what I considered terrible cards and watching them fold, and on the odd occasion doing it with trash. Did is with 78c and got a K88 flop against the bb with a K!

The stuff on isolation from Dooydoo was cool, and the other links.

Now I think I need to brush up on calling ranges when 3bet from a button steal.

Donk betting. I go for a steal, missed flop and villain donk bets, a lot of the time im folding, Im wondering how often this is a steal and how often I can take it with a 3bet. Ive also put in a couple that worked.

Im stoked things are moving in the right direction I just need to keep this up.


 
twoturntablez

twoturntablez

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 24, 2010
Total posts
425
Chips
0
I would be so grateful for any more insight on these stats.
 

Attachments

  • updated stats 4700.JPG
    updated stats 4700.JPG
    51.1 KB · Views: 113
  • more stats.JPG
    more stats.JPG
    78.8 KB · Views: 113
dooydoo

dooydoo

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Feb 13, 2012
Total posts
265
Chips
0
Your turn cbet is really high. Although it could be a sample thing.

Can you post the positional stats with the same ones that i posted above?
 
acky100

acky100

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 22, 2010
Total posts
3,523
Chips
0
I think you should look at dooydoo's stats he/she posted, really good example position wise imo note how the vpip/pfr gets much larger IP and look at the unopened PFR, this is a much better stat to use when looking at ranges usually. Also look at your steal %, Should be at the very minimum 30+ and i guess at the moment yours will be around 20.

LOOSEN UP IN POSITION :D
 
twoturntablez

twoturntablez

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 24, 2010
Total posts
425
Chips
0
Softly softly catchy monkey. Ive got to build on this habit whilst seeing it work. Sometimes its not working and I need the experience to learn how to outplay them postflop.

Acky Im trying!

Dooydoo, how do i get the stats you're after from HEM?
 
dooydoo

dooydoo

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Feb 13, 2012
Total posts
265
Chips
0
1. open your positional report
2. click the '+'. Thats the add stat btn
3. Search through the pop up screen for the stats and add them
4. Close it when youre done
5. highlight the stat you want and click the up or down arrows to put them in order
 
Top