Two maniacs at the table.

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mauroc711

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Hi guys! I come to post a situation that occurs in my weekly live cash games.

We organized a meeting Sunday and Thursday to play some dollars among friends and acquaintances, lovers poker in my village. Usually we are 8-9 players, I'm certainly the most correct.

There are too tight 3-4 easy to predict players, 2 call station, 2-3 players quite correct, ussually a maniacal player with the need to aggressively play every hand (raising whit conectors off, A with mediocre kicker, 3bet with marginal hands like 9-6 suited, etc ... a classic donkey.)

I always liked to play with this table and usually profit from it, only with proper game and some luck can take home some bills.


A few weeks ago has joined the meeting another manic, same or worse than "our manic" when both are excited after some hit release the table becomes "unplayable" and a few nights ago was beaten repeatedly, breaking my hands premium with trash.

They broke my QQ "all in pre flop" with J9, both called when push "all in pre flop with AK suited," one had AJ off and the other had 96 suited (96 I win the pot).

Finally after I connect straight whit 45 suited (flop A 2 3 rainbow) and raising the pot, I was defeated 6-4 after (because turn was 5).

I know that was a night where the variance juice me very badly, but still was frustrated by a couple of days.

What is the best way to get value playing against aggressive maniacs like these ?, one could adjust, but when both are together is as if one were to ever defeat. Should I keep playing tight aggressive or I avoid the table when the two coincide?
 
TimovieMan

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No, just keep doing what you have been doing - getting it in while ahead.

Variance can and will hit you hard on occasion, but most of the time, you're winning.

Never forget that this is a long-term game. If the decision is +EV, then you win, even if you lose in this particular instance.
 
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mauroc711

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I tend to see it that way, but certainly, the presence of 2 players very lose agressive becomes more complicated to develop a technical game, keep the record and see how things develop.
 
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alienist

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If there is a maniac playing at my table I tend to tighten up quite a bit and trap him with "solid" hands. some maniacs will also get out of the way when you apply pressure on them post flop (e.g. raise their continuation bets), especially on scary boards, that are bad for their range like QQT but i guess that depends very much on the type of maniac...

I understand what you mean, its very difficult to play "intelligently" when two players at the table are complete idiots. It's probably best to play very tight.
Avoiding them, in my eyes, is very wrong. They are probably gold mines in the long run!
 
Railbird

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If there is a maniac playing at my table I tend to tighten up quite a bit and trap him with "solid" hands. some maniacs will also get out of the way when you apply pressure on them post flop (e.g. raise their continuation bets), especially on scary boards, that are bad for their range like QQT but i guess that depends very much on the type of maniac...

I understand what you mean, its very difficult to play "intelligently" when two players at the table are complete idiots. It's probably best to play very tight.
Avoiding them, in my eyes, is very wrong. They are probably gold mines in the long run!
I agree with this post. Let them lose their money as much as they want. Donk moves are only temporarily rewarding.
See about trying to meet up one on one and teach them about the beauty of playing strategically rather than recklessly. Maybe loan them a few poker books. The goal is to help them attain skill to make poker nights more rewarding (money and experience), even leading to joining up on leagues together.
If that doesn't work, slap them.
 
luiaguila

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if you say you play so long as they'll win a few hands does not vary much as it is in safe forecasts your will you get much more than they took you always remember to take statistics by week and month and see that these cash earning for general
 
billbaffles

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Two maniacs is better than one imo. I wouldnt try to teach them anything if you are playing against them. That to me is selling yourself out so that they have ideas on how to beat you. Sure, stupid play will sometimes be rewarded, and sometimes repeatedly, it is never over until the other players are drawing dead. Im playing against a maniac right now and it never ceases to amaze me how lucky players get and then they have a large stack but i stay tight and aggressive and my bankroll keeps going up. Similar to an all-in player, id look to loosen up a bit but still keep my range ahead of the maniacs.
 
BogdanStark

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This is normal situation. So just use table selection, and be cool.
 
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Mauno

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Usually they loose their chips quickly. Just choose your moment to play.
 
Rony Mota

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The player can get lucky at the time, but in the long run your skill prevail

This is constant in MTT online tournaments. We must always adapt .
 
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mauroc711

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Yesterday I back to have a "poker night" with friends including two lunatics, this time one of them was beaten again and again until he left the game after lose the 7th box, while the other received blows sporadic luck that eased their losses but he still lost a bit.

Make my range even tighter than usual and was aggressive, the variance was normal and I caught a few dollars,I will follow your advice and begins to lead a statistic, I think you are right, I should not desmotivarme for a couple of unfortunate nights.
 
BLACKSOLDIER

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I'd tend to avoid the maniacs and let them play themselves into a hole then pounce. Regardless of varience they suck and will go down, they play each hand with such zeal they hardly notice if you're a Nit, and if you are patient you will catch good. Problem is you'll have manic on tilt rebuying.
 
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Pitiku86

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I think that the luck is important in this game.
 
tbdbitl

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I would be inclined to keep the pots small pre-flop and look to play post flop monsters strong. set mining and suited connectors.
But then again I've been questioning my live play a lot lately.
 
BogdanStark

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More cheaper you will see the flop, more success you would be on the next streets, if we are talking about playing against maniacs!!!
More often I see such game type at the MPN poker network at the NL-2 cash tables. I was very profitable when played there. poker stars for example, had much stronger players then anybody else !!!!
 
Rony Mota

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Studying the range of these players is very important to make a decision .
 
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dejan85

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you always have that kind of situation juste keep playingyour game....
 
dragunovich

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when this happens to me, I pay attention trying to knock one of them
 
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Poker247

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Keep notes on the maniacs and see if you can get some tells off them...betting amounts, etc. Generally, I tighten up a bit and look to trap maniacs. Variance can really suck, but getting your money in good is very +EV in the long run, and you can make a lot of money of maniacs in the right situations. GL!
 
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Broon1234

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tighten up, value bet thinner, bluff and semibluff less. Raise less preflop as you are no longer raising to eliminate players and increase your pot equity, you are only raising for value. It is not beneficial to create a larger pot preflop with speculative hands (anything less than large pairs) because you will now be giving your maniacs better odds as they continue future streets and/or force yourself to be making huge flop and turn bets against an unknown range of hands.
 
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Lance Webster

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best advice is to make sure your ahead when the race starts
 
GuiWah

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Dude, just wait a good hand to act. So, you can do something without problems (<: .
Take care with the pot, don't put money like a stupid on the pot if you are not right of your hand power.
 
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Binraker

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This is great advice. Had a guy last night playing 95% of hands. Raising at least 5xBB almost every one of them. Sometimes he would limp or flat call but I never saw what with as he would fold even if checked to. V strange. Maybe didn't want me to get read on what hands he did that with.
Huge swings in stack sizes but I think you got to accept that when you decide to stay at the table. I think it's important to analyse all the showdowns you see and I think I spotted some bet sizing tells. And lines to take. Discovered he could be bluffed only if I went all in on river - not before! He'd call with any sort of equity.
 
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redmast

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I believe that it is even better. Tight players win easier than the maniac. In the long run you will be in the black. The main thing that you no were nervous and were calm. It is not necessary to teach them to play poker. They are for you as the sponsors
 
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