This is a discussion on Tightening up SB and BB starting hands in 6 max? How to understand HM2 data on these? within the online poker forums, in the Cash Games section; Please bear with me here as my knowledge of using HM2 data and stats is pretty basic so sorry if this is a bit scrambled:
Tightening up SB and BB starting hands in 6 max? How to understand HM2 data on these?
Please bear with me here as my knowledge of using HM2 data and stats is pretty basic so sorry if this is a bit scrambled:
So I've spent the past 3 months running HM2 on all my online hands (sticking to one site for now for cash games) and overall felt really good about my play. But HM2 (and also my separate tracking of cash ins/outs) tells a different story. I'm not a huge stats guy in terms of everything HM2 offers so I'm looking for some help understanding the information better and how to translate that into actionable steps specifically in SB and BB opens.
Over a sample of about 40K hands (and maybe a few hundred of those are FR) the following information presented when considering position:
- On the button I'm at about 13bb/100.
- Cutoff I'm at about 5bb/100
- In middle position and early position I'm about 17bb/100.
But when we get to SB and BB it seems like I'm just spewing money to the tune of -20 to -29 bb/100 !
Looking at VPIP/PFR data based on position (and with my limited knowledge of HM2 data meaning): my VPIP/PFR from early position to the button is between 27/13 to 31/17 with the MP being tightest and button being loosest.
But then we look at the VPIP/PFR for the blinds: SB: 63/16 and BB: 41/10.
Another thing i noticed , and I don't really understand these stats fully either: Is that my Agg/Agg% increases when we get to SB and BB.
This data is eye opening for me. From a mental game perspective I suppose I'm simply seeing more flops from SB and BB, calling from the SB to see a flop, and getting into sticky post flop situations with medicore holdings. Whereas in the other positions I tend to fold more often preflop.
Obviously it's pretty clear, even with my limited understanding of HM2 stats, that if we took out BB and SB data I'm doing well but I have a massive leak at these two positions.
So any tips on fixing this? Is it really just a matter of folding more on SB and getting away from medicore BB hands sooner? And any deeper insight on this data?
Thank you, hopefully I can figure this out and turn this thing around.
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I'm also learning from some resources that it's generally expected to be in the negative -bb/100 in HM2 from the blinds since we're forced to pay them and often fold them post flop. Does this concept make sense?
In any event I'd still be looking for ways to get more value of other positions and lower the losses on the blinds.
August 27th, 2017, 7:28 PM
Poker at: ACR
You don't give your sample size from each blind. But, I can safely assume it's about 5k hands each.
If you folded every SB, you would be -50xbb/100 from there. If you folded very BB, you would be -100xbb/100 from there.
Being negative in the blinds is normal and expected. It is rare, if not impossible over a large enough sample size, for someone to show a profit from those seats. Doing better than the rates you would get by folding is good. To be honest, your rate from the blinds isn't that bad. There are winning players who lose more in the blinds.
If anything, tighter from EP and looser on the button. Those would be the adjustments I make. You shouldn't be looser than 27% VPIP in early position. And 31% is hella-tight on the button. The flat distribution in the hands you are playing suggests you don't fully appreciate the advantages and disadvantages that come from being in and out of position.
August 27th, 2017, 7:48 PM
Online Poker at: Bovada
Hey Vinnie, thanks for the detailed and thoughtful reply, it definitely is helpful to have this deeper understanding of bb/100 based on position. That said it's about 9,5K hands per blind (although your number makes sense so maybe there's a glitch or duplicates in my HM2).
I agree positional awareness and taking advantage of position is a leak of mine so it's helpful to see this data. It's also helpful to hear that running negative in the blinds bb/100 is standard.
I'll certainly look more to adjusting my EP and button play as you suggested and see where that takes me.
August 27th, 2017, 8:23 PM
Poker at: ACR
re: Poker & Tightening up SB and BB starting hands in 6 max? How to understand HM2 data on these?
My logic for the 5k was that it was a minimum that I would expect. 40k / 6 ~= 6.7k. But, if you were playing at tables that were not always full, had people sitting out, etc. then it would be higher. The 9.5k is a bit higher than I would expect (averaging just over 4 players a hand), but not unreasonable. I wouldn't worry about it. Also, if you don't strictly sit in only on your BB and sit out exactly when the BB gets to you, you'll have higher than expected numbers of blind hands. My own data has more hands from the blinds than anywhere else. Actually, for 42k hands, it's 8.7k and 9.0k hands for each of the two blind spots. In any case, it's enough of a sample size to draw some conclusions.
If you can, I would recommend checking out the Grinder's Manual. His ranges are a bit tight, you could get away with being a little looser, but it gives you an idea of how tight EP should be and how wide BTN should be. There are other places with hand charts, which demonstrate the same idea.
Position is so powerful that pretty much any statement talking about its importance is usually understating things. I admit, I have been playing a lot of omaha where position is even more important, but it's just taught me how little I was abusing position in Hold'em when I should have been. Or how often I was allowing myself to play hands with poor position, leaving myself in spots where I was bound to win very little or lose more because I couldn't control the pot as well or steal as effectively.
Your button range can easily be 2x, 3x, or more the size of your EP range.
August 29th, 2017, 11:18 AM
Online Poker at: Bovada
Thanks for the feedback vinnie, this is solid stuff. I'll definitely be making these adjustments and be looking to focus more on position for sure.