Thoughts on the Straddle?

AceOfSpades24

AceOfSpades24

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I'm not much of a cash game player, but planning on playing more often in the near future and was wondering what are some pros of using the straddle? I mean, the straddle has never been my thing, personally, but what are some pros of using it? It seems like the only pro would be stealing last position pre-flop, although the straddle would still be out of position vs. most players post-flop. Possibly, it could frustrate the blinds a bit, but other than that, I just look at it like paying an unnecessary, larger blind.

What are some other pros to using it? I'm just curious, really. I may start using it if there's something there I don't see about it.

Thank in advance for replies.
 
ythelongface

ythelongface

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It is akin to taking insurance in blackjack....Just say no. Your voluntarily putting extra money in the pot but you are last to act after the big blind, so this does give you that advantage, but unless your just majorly agressive, or just like to gamble, its generally just a waste of money IMO.
 
AceOfSpades24

AceOfSpades24

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Yeah, that's how I look at it. Since I'm mostly a tight-aggressive player, and most people's standard raises are to $8-$12 and sometimes upwards of $15, I really dislike the prospect of losing $5 instead of $2 when someone raises and you don't have much of a hand.
 
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BlueNowhere

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Range of a straddle is ATC so they can get paid off when they have a big hand.
 
jbbb

jbbb

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I only straddle in home games with my friends. It's a lot of fun because of the mind games. Seems like a waste of money doing it in the casino.
 
flatcaller

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its just there for added fun. If you get a lot of ppl calling your straddle you can reraise steal and things like that but you just have to be careful when and how much u do it. If you have a passive game with lots of calling and folding a trick like this will work well.
 
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NoOneYouKnow

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Physically posting a straddle is -ev although loosening up a table where you have an edge is +ev. Best result is to have others play a straddle whilst you do not (I find this slimy just ftr).
 
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baudib1

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Reasons to straddle:

1. Gives you chance to act last while UTG, which is pretty huge.
2. Makes the game play bigger.
3. Makes TAGs/nits uncomfortable.
4. Creates incredible action because people don't know how to respond to it.

i.e. a TAG who normally raises to $10-$15 sees a straddle to $10 and 3 callers, then raises to $50 and then ends up stacking off with 99 after 2 people shove because there's so much money in the pot.
 
MediaBLITZ

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I did a little research on this and the one compelling reason I found was the fear factor. If there is a player on your left who can and will outplay you then your starddle can force him to act first instead of after you.

Just for grins I sometimes like to point his out to the button straddle on my blind and ask the guy why he's afraid of me - lol.

Other than that you need to determine if the guy doing it is just gambling - that will tell you a lot about his game and what you can exploit. But someone who "knows" what he's doing will straddle, comes over the top of the limpers and look to take the pot down on the flop if he gets a caller - he's really not concerned with what cards he has.

What blows my mind (and I've seen this in the last week) is the guy who straddles with a stack that is less than 25% of buy-in. It just reeks of desperation.
 
duggs

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Reasons to straddle:

1. Gives you chance to act last while UTG, which is pretty huge.
2. Makes the game play bigger.
3. Makes TAGs/nits uncomfortable.
4. Creates incredible action because people don't know how to respond to it.

i.e. a TAG who normally raises to $10-$15 sees a straddle to $10 and 3 callers, then raises to $50 and then ends up stacking off with 99 after 2 people shove because there's so much money in the pot.

Iv been meaning to ask how the straddle changes the dynamics of the game and peoples ranges etc? are you saying people stack of lighter in general or that some opponents just fail to adjust for it? does it tend to decrease the number of raises at the table and increase the number of players to the flop or vice versa? I Imagine that some people have extremely tight opening ranges and wide limping ranges with a straddle in place yea?


and etiquette wise when playing in a cash game with a straddle it would be incredibly rude to not straddle correct?
 
Deco

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When someone straddles I don't really change my play or stealing ranges that much. It's just like someone posting a third blind. Looks great for your image when you raise them all the time as well. Everyone regards you as a maniac when it really is no different from blind stealing.
 
MediaBLITZ

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and etiquette wise when playing in a cash game with a straddle it would be incredibly rude to not straddle correct?

From a Poker After Dark episode (or was it HSP), right? I don't remember who it was but they sure gave one of the guys a bad time cause he wouldn't straddle.
I have just not ever run into a low stakes situation where players felt if they were going to straddle you should too.
I don't see why it would be an issue - if a guy doesn't straddle that you think should then min-raise him. LOL

The straddle (or "JUICING THE POT") is sometimes an attempt to loosen the table by making bigger pots that make it worth another players while to take a shot at. I think it does backfire many times at the lower levels because a lot of those players are not properly bankrolled so they end up tightening up instead. Which isn't so bad either for the straddler. Some straddlers may see it as a win-win.
 
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rcsmith4

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Well there are a few types of straddles, there are an open, closed, and forced. An open straddle is where you act last and can have many positional and psychological benefits to it. The closed straddle is more of a sucker bet, as you dont get any positional advantage, and you are essentially just inflating the table. A forced straddle is when the whole table agrees to play a set amount of rounds, beneficial if there are tighter players that dont like to get involved in big pots if they dont have the goods. All in all, the straddle is a situational weapon, and there are even times that if you dont use it, you are making a bad decision.
 
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BlueNowhere

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Well there are a few types of straddles, there are an open, closed, and forced. An open straddle is where you act last and can have many positional and psychological benefits to it. The closed straddle is more of a sucker bet, as you dont get any positional advantage, and you are essentially just inflating the table. A forced straddle is when the whole table agrees to play a set amount of rounds, beneficial if there are tighter players that dont like to get involved in big pots if they dont have the goods. All in all, the straddle is a situational weapon, and there are even times that if you dont use it, you are making a bad decision.
You missed sleeper straddle.
 
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baudib1

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What happens is it creates a lot more dead money in the pot obviously. If it is a $1/$2 game, imagine 3 people calling $2 vs. calling $15 -- it gives you a lot more incentive to make a move at the pot. Let's say this situation happens and a LAG player pops it to $50-$60 from late position and you have 99 and $200 behind in the BB, what are you going to do?

In games that allow the Mississippi straddle (on the button), you should almost always exercise your option to do so as it is an incredible advantage. Straddling in other positions is less beneficial.
 
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dan abnormal

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WHen I play it seems the straddle is used for the loud mouths at the table to show their greatness LOL, Or the drunk dude getting egged on by the semi hot girl at the table, "do it straddle" "awight I staddle". I havent seen one reason other than for show for a person to use it. I know it pisses off the old dudes as they have interesting comments under their breathe

I havent read this whole thread so Im sure the answer is in it, what is the purpose of the straddle, for someone UTG to put pressure on either side of him, if the stradler feels he can steal the blinds this way. (hmm I see right above my post, so it used to try more action at more tight tables?
 
MediaBLITZ

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In games that allow the Mississippi straddle (on the button), you should almost always exercise your option to do so as it is an incredible advantage. Straddling in other positions is less beneficial.

Can you explain this in a little more depth (in regards to the position)? It just seems like a straddle on the button is a little wasted and the best place to straddle would be UTG (to gain position) - but I know no one really does this. I can only surmise that the straddle has little to no value in buying you position PF and is only meant to juice the pot when you are in position? Comments?
 
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BM0529

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I love the play when other guys do it, I won't ever do it myself though because I find that most players fall into the "he straddled, he cannot have a big hand, he has to be bluffing" mentality. I have seen so many monster hands cracked in straddles by people who called big pre-flop raises with very marginal hands they likely would have folded otherwise to someone making the same raise who had not straddled. I recall a regular straddler where I played making the standard 4$ pre-flop straddle in a 1-2NL game and picking up AA, he bumped it to 20$ when it got back to him and some geezer who was tilting over the straddle called with 6-5 off and the flop came down 2-3-4. The geezer openly said after the hand he would never have called had the guy not straddled and simply raised UTG. In the long run I guess you can argue people not believing you will work in your favor, but the problem becomes if 3 or 4 don't believe you in the same hand, you don't want 4 players going to the flop when you have KK or QQ. The button staddle I do not like because it basically violates the rules of the game. I know the Rio allows it in Vegas and maybe 1-2 other casinos there as well. Its absurd that the blinds have to act first pre-flop, its already a bad enough to position to be, the button straddle makes the blinds doubly worse. I could live with the button straddle but the order of the action should go UTG through to the cut-off, then the blinds, then back to the button.
 
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MrEncryptor

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I see no benefit to straddling because it's nothing more than a blind raise. We hear talk about how it gives the straddler the last position and the ability to control the pot size but in NL if someone in late position looks down and see AK he's gonna raise it up. Now the straddler looks down and sees 9-2...whether he folds, calls, or reraises, he's still statistically outmatched and will end up losing extra money unnecessarily.

The only type of players I've seen straddle are the guys who are either arrogant, maniacs, or are trying to impress the other players with supposed strategies...but seasoned players know that a straddle is nothing more than an attempt at intimidation which will backfire in the long run and quite often I've seen them exploit it.
 
duggs

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I see no benefit to straddling because it's nothing more than a blind raise. We hear talk about how it gives the straddler the last position and the ability to control the pot size but in NL if someone in late position looks down and see AK he's gonna raise it up. Now the straddler looks down and sees 9-2...whether he folds, calls, or reraises, he's still statistically outmatched and will end up losing extra money unnecessarily.

The only type of players I've seen straddle are the guys who are either arrogant, maniacs, or are trying to impress the other players with supposed strategies...but seasoned players know that a straddle is nothing more than an attempt at intimidation which will backfire in the long run and quite often I've seen them exploit it.

you are missing the point that someone opening a pot has a defined range, but a straddle has 100% range
 
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MrEncryptor

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you are missing the point that someone opening a pot has a defined range, but a straddle has 100% range

I have not missed the point, I've heard this argument before...the one time in which a straddle is favorable after the flop is negated by the 9 other times it is unfavorable after the flop....it's akin to taking a wild stab in the dark....how often would that work out favorably?

Let's put a minor spin on this and say, absent a straddle, a player in middle position puts down a blind raise of 3BB (by not looking at his cards), in a way, he's controlling the pot size and he's definitely got a 100% range. But it would be agreed by most that this is an unwise play, however, people debate the pros and cons of a straddle simply because poker players coined a term "straddle" and therefore we assume that it's somehow a tactic that's different from a blind raise.

I stand by my statement/opinion that it's a senseless intimidation tactic.
 
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duggs

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if everyone does it it generates bigger pots
 
jaxpaboo

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Is it just me or do most chronic straddlers not play their straddle the right way?

I see so many straddle and not raise when it gets back to them. Am I wrong to think that a straddler should be raising at least /2 of the time if not more when it gets back to them?
 
JusSumguy

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Ask before you straddle.

Around here it varies a lot. The bike allows a true straddle. Hawaiian Gardens just counts it as a blind raise, thus taking the power of the straddle away. I think it's The Hustler that makes you drag it back.

-
 
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I think only the pros really straddle and in live games for publicity reasons rather than poker rationale. The straddle adds more dead money in the pot which in turn leads to bigger pots and more loose play as players are more willing to widen their range to steal or take the pot. Bigger pots and loose play makes for better tv since viewers like watching bigger pots and more marginal situations which is why it is in the interests of both pros on the show and the show itself to encourage straggling. Also, the pros on HSP or PAD often play against each other often so they are probably treating the game more as a fun past time than their main source of income.

Basically, straddling is good for home games with friends or for publicity but not for making money imo.
 
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