Taking shots at higher stakes

Vini_lepoker

Vini_lepoker

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I would like to know if you guys have any strategy to take shots at higher stakes, how many buy ins should you have? How much money you loose until you go out? Is there any specific day? Emotional state and etc.
 
vinnie

vinnie

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I am currently taking what I consider fairly aggressive shots in Omaha, where I should have higher bankroll requirements. But, I'm using my standard hold'em method. My method works like so:
  1. Move up with 30 buy-ins for the new level (say $300 at PLO10).
  2. Must move down if I have fewer than 20 buy-ins at the current level (drop below $200 at PLO10). That means I'll have almost 40 buy-ins at PLO5, which I can use to rebuild.
  3. Must stop/step-down if I lose more than 4 buy-ins in a session and that amount puts me below 30 total for the level. This is a tilt-control measure. Basically, if I start with 33 buy-ins and lose 5, putting me at 28, I must stop or move down for that day. I still have enough to play that level tomorrow. If I had 36 buy-ins and lost 5, I could still keep playing. As along as I stay above the 30 mark. It's a bit arbitrary, but it works for me.
  4. Reduce the number of tables when stepping up. I am already not playing too many tables at once, because the game is new for me, but when I step up I drop down to 1-2 tables max.
  5. Stop following fish up! ** OK, this one I haven't been doing. I should. I had been playing a guy at $10 No-Limit Omaha, and he moved up to $25 NL Omaha with a short buy-in ($12.50). I justified it because it was a short buy-in table. I ended up losing $26 on those tables (my all-in EV was actually only -$2 but I wasn't running well). I shouldn't have gone up. I had the edge on the player, but not the bankroll to handle if things went really bad--which, thankfully, didn't happen.
I'm currently going from $10 -> $25, which is a large jump. Basically, need to win 45 buy-ins at this level instead of the normal 30. I am also learning the game, so I'm not exactly crushing it. Currently at +9.6 bb/100 but the sample size is LOL-small (2.3k hands).

I have used a similar method when going up in stakes in Hold'em. Sometimes even more aggressive by moving up at 20 and dropping down at 15. That was mostly at the lower levels. When I went from $25NL to $50NL, I found that I was stepping up and down annoyingly often. So, I started aiming for 50+ buy-ins at the level before moving up. And, right before Black Friday, I was going to start taking shots at $100NL, with 75 buy-ins. So, I was definitely more conservative. I think you need to be more conservative when moving up to stakes outside the micros. Losing 40 buy-ins at $5NL? I can replace that amount easily, out of my pocket if I need to. losing 40 buy-ins at $200NL? That's an amount that's going to take time to replace from my pocket unless I am willing to do some tricky budget maneuvering.

Back when I started, I was determined to never deposit and only build from freerolls. I told myself that if I lost it all, I would be done (or at least back to grinding freerolls). So, I was more conservative than I needed to be at the micros. I regret that now. It slowed down my progress to levels where I could make more money. Sure, I got to learn to beat the game at the cheapest levels, but I spent too much time at them. The less you are willing to deposit, the more conservative you need to be and the slower you will move up.

Edit: Day of the week and time of day, I don't seen too much difference at the micros. Not enough that I make it a point. I do have a serious difference in session length. The longer my session is, the more likely it is a losing one. But, I am not convinced of the cause/effect relationship for that one. I hate quitting when down, so I am more likely to play longer because I am losing. I am not sure that I am losing more often because I am playing longer. I think it is the other way around. Still, a max session length would probably be wise.
 
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ndnk

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Don't take shots if you don't think you have a good chance of winning at the higher stakes, obviously. Keep at least a bare minimum of 20 buy ins for your normal stakes aside. If you lose the rest, go back and grind those stakes until you have enough to take shots again.
 
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chronical

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Let us know how it goes. It's interesting to read expiriences of people going up the stakes ("high limits" especially)
 
Vini_lepoker

Vini_lepoker

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Thanks for advices!

I did take a shot, but still at micro limits. I play at NL2 and almost have the BR to play at NL5, I decided to take a shot at NL5 on Saturday because I want to build the BR to play at that limit faster. I said to myself that I was going to play until I was 2 buy ins down.

I am playing more of 6-max at NL2 these days, 5-6 tables, I Played full ring at 2 tables because there is more variance in 6-max. There were a lot of fishes (probably because it was Saturday) but also saw some plays I don't see at NL2, like regs 3betting my iso raises when they had position.

I played extremely tight because I was thinking in the money, in a double barrel at NL5 there is more money involved than most big pots I play at NL2, I got too nervous when playing huge pots because I was thinking that would take me a lot of time to earn that money again playing at NL2.

It was a good experience, that stake doesn't play very differently from NL2, I managed to make 22bb/100 but I think I should stick to my initial 30 buy ins plan to play at certain limit. Don't wanna have a heart attack lol.
 
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Sidetracked

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If I have 25 buy ins for a given limit (say, $250 at $10NL) I might take a 2 buy in shot at $25NL.

If I run badly and lose those 2 buy ins, I'll be down to $200 and will then revert to playing $10NL. The key to taking shots is to move back down if that shot doesn't go well.
 
vinnie

vinnie

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I am playing more of 6-max at NL2 these days, 5-6 tables, I Played full ring at 2 tables because there is more variance in 6-max.

This I would not have done. Yes, there is more variance at 6-max than full-ring, but your comfort level has been 6-max and that's where you've been playing. It is the mindset you are in. The two table types often play differently, so you're changing two things at once (the stake and the table size).

The step up from 2nl to 5nl has never been that significant. If I recall, PS also allows $5 buy-ins at 2nl and also $5 at 5nl, so you're really still playing people with similar amounts at risk. (I just checked and this is no longer true, $2 is now the 2nl max. Those were the good old days). Actually, even the move from 5nl to 10nl wasn't a big deal (at least back before black Friday when I could last play on PS). It was the step from 10nl to 25nl where I really saw the first significant improvements in play. And 25nl to 50nl was also a large enough difference.

Then again, it's been ages since I have been on that site and people say it's tougher these days. Players seem tighter (from checking out the lobby) than when I last played. Fewer 60-80% of players to the flop tables. The world needs to bring back the American market. We're the fish. We keep the games loose and profitable! :D
 
Vini_lepoker

Vini_lepoker

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Fewer 60-80% of players to the flop tables. The world needs to bring back the American market. We're the fish. We keep the games loose and profitable! :D

I definitely have to table select hard to find good fishes. And yes, I really hope that US players can return to PS lol
 
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Hirevr

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I think if you are playing the micros and can replace your role you should use very aggressive bankroll management. 10 buyins or so is very effective if you are winning player. The micros have such high rake that you will have a hard time getting out.
 
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seventhsense

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I think if you are playing the micros and can replace your role you should use very aggressive bankroll management. 10 buyins or so is very effective if you are winning player. The micros have such high rake that you will have a hard time getting out.

This is not true. Just a month ago my roll was $20 because I have been in the U.S. (I use pokerstars). I am now at 25nl and 50nl using a 20 BI strategy.

The micros are easily beatable. Admittedly they are tougher than before but not anywhere near unbeatable.
 
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Ajax95777

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I only go higher stakes if i am profitable at the current stakes.
Usually when i enter a higher stakes either i have the luck of the beginner or i am quickly crushed:eek: But if i have enough money eventualy i get used to the new stakes. That's why you have to move on higher stakes only when you have the proper bankroll;)
 
dimon4ik89

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You are absolutely right, there are so many factors that affect the outcome of the ga

You are absolutely right, there are so many factors that affect the outcome of the game. As for the emotional state, the mood should be good and you must be positive. Of course there are good days when luck is on your side and there are also bad days when you are badly off. The main thing is to understand in time and be able to stop. I usually make a maximum of 2 buy ins after which either I change for another table or stop playing that day. Buy ins make a minimum, so that you do not lose much in case you have to go all in.
 
Stuey

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You got to crush the game you are playing now before you try bigger games. If you beat your regular game for say 20bb/hour for a long number of hours like 500hr or more you can consider yourself a game crusher. So, now you can move up. But before that if you want to take shots you'll be gambling like at slot machine. If you get lucky you win only to give it back and some more the next day.
 
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