Switch from full ring to 6max, possibly rush/zoom...

DrazaFFT

DrazaFFT

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Hey guys, those who know me, know that i only play fullring micro stakes, last few days i played a little rush on FTP, i think that it is a to big of a change for me, i have lost few buyins in like 1k hands, i understand that it is not large sample and that it might be just variance but it is not, (not rigged story, dont worry :D ), i played bad almost every big hand i was involved i guess i expected that the game would be a little looser that it really was and i get myself into some bad spots and now to be honest i dont know what to do next...

I fell in love with rush because you can play so much hands in so short time, for a guy who is struggling with time and volume this has to be a good idea...

Now my question is what adjustments i need to make to successfully switch to 6-max, and what adjustments i need to make to play rush...

thanks in advance!!
 
Arjonius

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Before you start making adjustments to accommodate a different game, make sure you have a solid foundation by beating FR for a decent rate over a meaningful sample size.

6max is kind of like FR where the first few seats have folded. Not completely, but if you have a decent FR game, it's okay to play as if this were the situation while you look for where and how to adjust.
 
DrazaFFT

DrazaFFT

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I cant really say that im beating fr 2nl because i dont have a big sample size, i couldn't play much hands on pkr because i wasn't comfortable with software and played mostly one table, but over a 4 months there i played 4k hands and was up 25 bucks mixing 2nl and 4 nl. I understand that this is a sample that reg play in a day but as i said volume is my biggest enemy... when i started playing at ftp i started with 16 bucks and get to over 40, now im at 35ish bucks after day or two of rush...
 
LD1977

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Do you even have a HUD? If not then it is a bit more difficult since you have to play a pure nitty static value strategy.
 
DrazaFFT

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no i dont have it, i had an idea to grind to 60 bucks at ftp and buy small stakes hud from that money, because i'll probably never get the lock money...

I might stick with FR for a while then...
 
Fknife

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I might stick with FR for a while then...
Just dont play FR Zoom. If you had HUD you would see how ridiculous this game really is (at least on PS). Only 6max Zoom if you really want to.
 
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hffjd2000

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Rush/zoom. You will either win fast or loss fast. Your BR will have a volative swing.
 
DrazaFFT

DrazaFFT

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Just dont play FR Zoom. If you had HUD you would see how ridiculous this game really is (at least on PS). Only 6max Zoom if you really want to.

ill stick to fr regular game, there is no fr rush on ftp and i obviously dont have an edge on 6 max rush so ill stay at the game that i think i can beat...
 
LD1977

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You can't withdraw money from FTP if you never deposited. Meaning, instead of torturing yourself just spend 60$ and start earning it back properly.
 
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tohos

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Just dont play FR Zoom. If you had HUD you would see how ridiculous this game really is (at least on PS). Only 6max Zoom if you really want to.

Care to elaborate on the ridiculousness? I prefer FR and Zoom helps me with volume too as I don't like to stack tables and my screen is small so I don't like to sit at a ton of tables.

Draza its tough to play without HUD since you will have close to no data on the villains. Even if you play a nit style like me you still need to know their tendencies to exploit them better. And you won't be able to identify the whales and spewfishes unless you played pots with them before.

Why not get a trial HUD and give it a go if you want to play zoom. It will make your life much easier.

You could still beat Zoom FR game if you play extremely nit style without a HUD but definitely at a lower win rate than with one.
 
Fknife

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Care to elaborate on the ridiculousness? I prefer FR and Zoom helps me with volume too
Even if you play a nit style like me
Well if you like playing against 9/9 (some go even lower!) opponents and folding 100 hands preflop in a row than its ok. The only way, in my opinion, to have a profit in this game is to setmine/play suited connectors and find an id*ot ready to call all your bets through all streets.

Actually lots of people (probably smarter and more experienced than me) claim that Zoom games are hard to beat. Volume -> YES! but not constant profit. (or maybe you have some secret strategy that works on Zoom...I would be more than happy to hear it!)
 
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redwards92

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Not sure what you are on about.

There are plenty of bad player and fish in the 2NL FR pool even most of the nit regs are easy to exploit.
 
Fknife

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Not sure what you are on about.

There are plenty of bad player and fish in the 2NL FR pool even most of the nit regs are easy to exploit.

Well, you are right. I just probably dont know how to play this game. :)
 
DrazaFFT

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Thanks for the reply guys. Ill stay away from rush till i purchase tracker, i cant play that nitty to sustain small profit long time i would probably experience large swings as someone already said, i have habit om making a lot of notes when i was playing so i compensate a little for not having hud with rush i cant do that it all happens ti fast to keep up and i dont have time to take notes after the session because i mostly watch previous hands between two hands while im playing, after session i only take one or two to post or analyze...

Sent from my HTC Desire X using Tapatalk
 
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tohos

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Well if you like playing against 9/9 (some go even lower!) opponents and folding 100 hands preflop in a row than its ok. The only way, in my opinion, to have a profit in this game is to setmine/play suited connectors and find an id*ot ready to call all your bets through all streets.

Actually lots of people (probably smarter and more experienced than me) claim that Zoom games are hard to beat. Volume -> YES! but not constant profit. (or maybe you have some secret strategy that works on Zoom...I would be more than happy to hear it!)

I have a combined over 150k hands at 5NL and 10NL FR Zoom, 100k from 10NL. I assure you there are not as many 9/9 or lower as you seem to think. You could go check out my thread if you want proof, I don't want to post my graphs in here.

It is possible to be beat anything at microstakes because of the large number of fish. I admit regular tables are probably easier to beat due to being able to exploit certain tendencies and you can most likely have a higher BB/100.

But with the huge increase in volume playing ZOOM(unless you play tons of reg tables which my com can't handle so), while your BB/100 may drop, your BB/hour will increase. This is similar to the concept of multitabling to maximise your profit/hour although your profit/hand will drop. This makes ZOOM a higher profit/hour choice for some players.

Also if you are playing like 24 tables, I don't exactly see how it is too much different from playing ZOOM since you see so many opponents, especially if you are stacking tables. And I absolutely hate stacking tables.

You can beat the ZOOM FR(at least up to 10NL) by playing solid TAG poker. I actually had no game plan until I saw this
http://danuuutz.blogspot.sg/2013/12/day-13-and-completion-of-my-1000-at.html
Someone posted it on CC, can't recall where but the point is I realised you could just play simple ABC poker and crush these stakes. I have been a losing player at NLH cash games(and blowing most of tourney win on PLO) doing stupid stuff until that point.

Draza - I'll give you a tip for taking notes. Just pause the session to do it. No need to try and multitask everything. Pause session to go through the previous hand if you want to. Usually I just sit out one or two tables to do it. So long as you are comfortable and not being constantly pestered by a new hand while you're taking notes/watching last hand you should be fine.You only lose a teensy tiny bit of volume. Trust me I pause a lot of times during a session to take notes/go through some hands.

Another tip is to watch the end of hands you are not involved to gather more information rather than cycling through hand history to find that particular hand. You can do this by holding the CTRL key while you press fold. This is very useful, sometimes you can miss critical information by just moving to the next hand.

Good luck whatever you decide to do! Will keep an eye on this thread
 
Arjonius

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You can beat the ZOOM FR(at least up to 10NL) by playing solid TAG poker.
Agreed. The thing is though, if he were actually playing TAG, he'd be beating 2nl FR at a decent win rate. Since he's not, I assume he either won't or can't play TAG, thus my earlier comment about building his foundation.
 
Logan2

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You can beat the ZOOM FR(at least up to 10NL) by playing solid TAG poker. I actually had no game plan until I saw this
http://danuuutz.blogspot.sg/2013/12/day-13-and-completion-of-my-1000-at.html
Someone posted it on CC, can't recall where but the point is I realised you could just play simple ABC poker and crush these stakes. I have been a losing player at NLH cash games(and blowing most of tourney win on PLO) doing stupid stuff until that point.

Another tip is to watch the end of hands you are not involved to gather more information rather than cycling through hand history to find that particular hand. You can do this by holding the CTRL key while you press fold. This is very useful, sometimes you can miss critical information by just moving to the next hand.

Good luck whatever you decide to do! Will keep an eye on this thread
You can go to options--> zoom options and enable the option "fold and see", this way on fold buton is going to appear a little eye, click the eye every time want to fold and see the rest of the hand, no need to click CTRL key.

About the ABC poker, yeah, i posted the Danutz link, the 10nl graph was just a challenge, the guy is a 25nl/50nl zoom reg and play the same tag-nitty style (12/9)and still crush.

http://danuuutz.blogspot.ro/2014/01/2013-was-great-year-for-me.html

So, it is beatable?, yes. Is it easy? not for sure, actually Zoom is harder than reg tables, 6max is even harder more swingy and need more postflop skills, so better to focus on FR if can´t even beat that at the time and also best to focus on reg tables if don´t have even a hud.
 
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tohos

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Yes I agree with you Logan, switching from reg FR to 6 max Zoom is a big big change in direction and not recommended. Also don't recommend playing Zoom, especially 6max where you can't just nit up, without a HUD. As for the variance, well the more hands you play per hour, the more variance you will experience within the same time so it can't be helped. Eventually you need to be able to handle these swings if you want to play higher and higher stakes where your edge will subsequently get smaller and smaller thus the variance increase.

Didn't know about the eye thing but I was comfortable with CTRL click. Good info for anyone who find CTRL click to be a hassle though.

I read Danutz's blog but basically my thinking was if he can do it so can I. Call it confidence, arrogance or ego whatever. Obviously I can't quite pull it off to the same degree yet but the point is you can beat these games by playing solid poker.
And thank you by the way, for the link to his 10NL prop bet. Otherwise I mosts likely would have just blown off my remaining roll at Zoom PLO..
 
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focus on the game, make better decisions, keep patience and feel comfortable studying the game
 
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