Is struggling at 4NL mean your a bad player

RegHC23

RegHC23

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I was wondering can any of you out there tell me if you think that a person playing on line who is about 30 dollars down at 4NL a pre cursor to them being a bad player when the limits go up. Tell me what you think.
 
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thatgreekdude

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yes,no,maybe. doesn't necessarily mean you're bad because you lost 7 and a half buy ins, could be due to variance. Post some hands..
 
AlfieAA

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A bad player when the levels go up? ...I would concentrate on your current level before you think of anything else.

Are you new to the game? Might explain your question and loss at 4nl...its normal to lose when you first start playing and the idea in that time is to learn from your mistakes and generally get a better understanding overall. Which takes time and certain amount of effort.

That said, you could very well be crushing higher stakes in the future. Everyone is bad to start with.
 
RegHC23

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I have been playing steadily for almost 2 years. I posed this question because I have really been getting my butt handed to me at this stake for some stupid reason. I have made some bad mistakes on a few, but they have really been hitting well on turns and rivers and for some reason i have not caught the hint and made some really beginner mistakes. I then played at 10NL and won 2 buy ins in about 30 minutes. I truly table selected the 2 tables i was playing. Sometimes at 4nl i just get in and play on the table with the highest flop percentage. Keep the advice coming. I guess i am just bumming from running bad. lol
 
RodneyC86

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Variance can still be brutal even with a winrate in the double digits. In my last 100k hands at 2nl in stars I have went on a 13 BI downswing at one point.

I'm still hitting 10.5bb/100 hand 12-tabling

Variance is insane. Go figure

Also, you winning 2 buy ins at 10 in 30 minutes means piss. Any fish with sufficient luck can do that.
 
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akaRobbo

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Surely after playing for 2 years, you know that playing 30 minutes of 10NL is totally irrelevant when determining any sort of ability?

I also don't understand when you say about the limits go up? As others have said, beat your current level first.
 
LgBassMan

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Surely after playing for 2 years, you know that playing 30 minutes of 10NL is totally irrelevant when determining any sort of ability?

I also don't understand when you say about the limits go up? As others have said, beat your current level first.

On topic/off topic question but I see the saying "beat your current level first" a lot obviously and have never thought much of it. When exactly do you know when you are "beating" your current level at a cash game? X/100BB over X # of hands?
 
akaRobbo

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On topic/off topic question but I see the saying "beat your current level first" a lot obviously and have never thought much of it. When exactly do you know when you are "beating" your current level at a cash game? X/100BB over X # of hands?

Its a good question. IMO:

Anything close to 5BB/100 over at least 50k hands should give you confidence you're beating the level. Even anything in profit after around 50k means you're capable of better results. Anything under 30-40k I would say is pretty meaningless information.
 
RodneyC86

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Its a good question. IMO:

Anything close to 5BB/100 over at least 50k hands should give you confidence you're beating the level. Even anything in profit after around 50k means you're capable of better results. Anything under 30-40k I would say is pretty meaningless information.

Entirely subjective. For me my current idea of beating a level is maintaining a healthy winrate while playing most everyone without so much as a bat of an eyelid.
 
LgBassMan

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Entirely subjective. For me my current idea of beating a level is maintaining a healthy winrate while playing most everyone without so much as a bat of an eyelid.

His answer might have been subjective but I did ask for more of an exact 100BB win rate over a certain amount of hands- ball parking it. Your post is also subjective stating that beating a level is "maintaining a healthy win rate"- which is?
 
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I think that we can evaluate a player level only at NL25 and above.
The micro stakes are level less...
 
LgBassMan

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I think that we can evaluate a player level only at NL25 and above.
The micro stakes are level less...

Very untrue, as a lot of members here will tell you: 5NL, 10NL, 16NL games play tougher than some of the higher levels on any given day.
 
RodneyC86

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His answer might have been subjective but I did ask for more of an exact 100BB win rate over a certain amount of hands- ball parking it. Your post is also subjective stating that beating a level is "maintaining a healthy win rate"- which is?

That's the point. It's subjective. Healthy win rates is 5+bb/100 in micros takes except 2nl where getting 10bb/100 should be easy by most player's standards
That seems to be the most common reply you'll get in winrate threads....
 
RodneyC86

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Very untrue, as a lot of members here will tell you: 5NL, 10NL, 16NL games play tougher than some of the higher levels on any given day.

That's not true either. Most of the time the higher flying ones play better.

Difficulty and stake level has a totally linear correlation, it's been argued over and over many times


Still stop focussing on win rates and play your A game. Winrates should come naturally, not forced to get to a certain level.
 
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I still disagree, I can build up a bankroll from 2$ to 200$ in 2 days at NL2, but this never gonna happen at NL50+
 
duggs

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Variance can still be brutal even with a winrate in the double digits. In my last 100k hands at 2nl in stars I have went on a 13 BI downswing at one point.

I'm still hitting 10.5bb/100 hand 12-tabling

Variance is insane. Go figure

Also, you winning 2 buy ins at 10 in 30 minutes means piss. Any fish with sufficient luck can do that.

how many 2nl hands have you played?
 
duggs

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Very untrue, as a lot of members here will tell you: 5NL, 10NL, 16NL games play tougher than some of the higher levels on any given day.

well this is just wrong,
 
Arjonius

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Whether you're good or bad depends on your standard for comparison. If you're a winning player over a decent sample size at a particular level, it's fair enough to say you're good at that level. But that doesn't mean you'd be good if you tried playing up a few levels.
 
LgBassMan

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It is technically Monday for me, glad I corrected that.
 
RodneyC86

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how many 2nl hands have you played?

Way more than I should. Way way more.
I guess I got lazy these past two months with regards to poker self improvement. :(

EDIT:checked. 120k on my new computer. Think I have about 100k on the old one when I used to 6 table with WR of 13/100bb. Few thousands on my craptop with a HUD that glitches and lies to me sometimes. Apparently I also had to play poker with the craptop so I stopped playing on it
 
loafes

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I still disagree, I can build up a bankroll from 2$ to 200$ in 2 days at NL2, but this never gonna happen at NL50+

Quit your job and be a professional 2nl player? You're apparently making more than most people who have a day job.
 
RodneyC86

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I still disagree, I can build up a bankroll from 2$ to 200$ in 2 days at NL2, but this never gonna happen at NL50+

Even 24 tabling, that takes 12 hours per day of winrate of 20bb/100 . Something even blackrain would be proud of.
 
Aces2w1n

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I just can't see how you can make 50 a day from 2nl. even with 18 hrs of play on each lol

You may have a great boost but that awful things varience kicks in and reality sets in :)



Sure you may have a 20-50 hike .. but to consistently do it everyday, that's amazing and so bs not even the poker pro's could even do that... so your currently world poker pro :) well done.
 
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