Straight facing double suited turn.

jazzaxe

jazzaxe

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I was involved in a hand where I formed a nut straight on the turn. The board was double suited. I decided that the odds were in my favor and bet my stack Each opponent called and indeed, one of the opponents hit the flush on the river when his suit came up and the other opponent was stacked. They both showed hands on the showdown and they both had flush draws in either suit.

I started questioning whether I had made the right decision. They both had nine outs so the pot odds were not in their favor. I don't know if I had that much of an advantage, since I needed one of the two other suits to hit on the river. So for me to win it was even money and I really did not have odds in my favor to prevent my straight from being beaten. Any opinion on this would be appreciated.
 
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Dwarf

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I was involved in a hand where I formed a nut straight on the turn. The board was double suited. I decided that the odds were in my favor and bet my stack Each opponent called and indeed, one of the opponents hit the flush on the river when his suit came up and the other opponent was stacked. They both showed hands on the showdown and they both had flush draws in either suit.

I started questioning whether I had made the right decision. They both had nine outs so the pot odds were not in their favor. I don't know if I had that much of an advantage, since I needed one of the two other suits to hit on the river. So for me to win it was even money and I really did not have odds in my favor to prevent my straight from being beaten. Any opinion on this would be appreciated.

Generally speaking when you shove here and get 2 callers. Assuming both are chasing flushes and you dont have blockers to either flush draw. Its a 50/50 for you.

In the long run that is a very profitable play. It also is higher variance.
 
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QA77

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You ended up being in a tough spot equity wise but a lot of times you will be doing a lot better. And you still can't play it any differently.
 
Abramo Della Luce

Abramo Della Luce

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Generally speaking when you shove here and get 2 callers. Assuming both are chasing flushes and you dont have blockers to either flush draw. Its a 50/50 for you.

In the long run that is a very profitable play. It also is higher variance.
I think it's even a bit better than 50/50. And that is only if you are sure they are both chasing another flush.
If there is something slightly different, you are probably even more ahead.
On top of that, you also have a nice fold equity to go along with your great hand.
So I it is will be a very +EV play.
 
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Bagdalac4ever

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You risk a lot playing like this in case like that. It often happens that gives flush on someones straight. It happens to me all the time, but I figure that out and I never follow all in in situation like this. You must always think what cards do opponent can have and not to relay only on your hand. You have to consider if there is stronger hand than yours.
 
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braveslice

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Of course it was right like Dwrf and QA77 says. If you have troubles to see why, you should do an EV calculation yourself using for example http://www.thepokerbank.com/strategy/mathematics/expected-value/calculate/

To see odds use https://www.cardschat.com/poker-odds-calculator.php or https://www.pokerstrategy.com/poker-software-tools/equilab-holdem/

You had about 50% chances against two players, so if you bet 1 they call 2, you win on average 50% of 3 = 1.5 and because you invested 1 you see pure profit 0.5.

So basically whatever you bet you get half extra. Bet million and you make 500k profit, easy right? Just get that million first =)

Edit: to get you going, boxed method: We win 50% of time 2, and lose 50% of time 1, EV= win-lose = 0.5*2-0.5*1 = 0.5 (pure profit)

And Baddalac4ever advice is quite much as wrong than it can be, only last bit makes sense that you need to consider if someone has better hand. But you had the nuts, if you have the nuts, nobody can have better hand.
 
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Trips and straights can be a dangerous minefield at times. You have a great hand but then you get involved with ppl the will chase down anything. You give the wrong price to call but it doesn't always work out in your favor. It's super tough to lay down a made hand and I wouldn't do it. Although the more opponents in a hand the more you have to fade. I have ran stone-cold bluffs on a suited broad that is also paired and players can't lay down a straight. Don't be afraid of the monsters under the bed. You're going to lose a few.
 
quick

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Trips and straights can be a dangerous minefield at times. You have a great hand but then you get involved with ppl the will chase down anything. You give the wrong price to call but it doesn't always work out in your favor. It's super tough to lay down a made hand and I wouldn't do it. Although the more opponents in a hand the more you have to fade. I have ran stone-cold bluffs on a suited broad that is also paired and players can't lay down a straight. Don't be afraid of the monsters under the bed. You're going to lose a few.


Spot on.

We can't fear the monsters under the bed. Sure it can be a scary board and quite a sweat. And downright crushing when they hit their out but as most will say, get your money in good and correctly and over the long term things even out. Sounds like these villains got poor odds to call and chase but still chased.

No way I'm laying down the nut straight here, if there's only one villain left I might not shove (depending on stack sizes) but will definitely bet enough to give poor odds to continue, I'm willing to take that risk. In this case we have two possible callers and can't know if 1 or both will call so I think shoving here is correct. However, it depends how deep we are. If we shove all in but the all in is say a bit less than the pot size and the first villain calls, the second villain can make the argument they are just barely squeaking into potentially profitable pot odds. But overall they're going to miss more than they hit statistically so this shove here is correct.
 
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I was involved in a hand where I formed a nut straight on the turn. The board was double suited. I decided that the odds were in my favor and bet my stack Each opponent called and indeed, one of the opponents hit the flush on the river when his suit came up and the other opponent was stacked. They both showed hands on the showdown and they both had flush draws in either suit.

I was doing a little bit more thinking about this kind of spot.
As a lot of people have mentioned, shoving here and getting 2 callers is strong +EV in the long run.
I was wondering if there are some other good ways to play this hand. I think there are alot of potentially similar spots to this where you could make a good argument for playing it a little slower.

First off I would need a few questions answered.

1) Are you first to act on the turn?
2) How big are stacks compared the pot?
3) How was pre flop?
4) How was the flop played?

It would be cool if you remember.
 
Q

QuestionC

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You went all in with a 60% chance or so to win. It's a good move.

There's some situations where the person drawing's more likely to win, but this isn't it.
 
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