Starting to lose much money with HUD

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RythmAndBlues

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I dont understand the stats and i lost a whole lot of money to a donkey
he had VP 50 and PR 20 and i thought that if i get a pair im gonna get good payout by betting strong because he called raises with J-3s and such as....

But then one hand i get KJ and raises and he calls and flop comes K 3 9
he check i bet he calls turn 2 i bet again he raises i call river 4 he bet and i call and he shows K9... i mean if the VP is high that means he is loose but if the PR is far away from the VP that means passive i know... but what is passive ? is it that if he plays back at you he got a good hand ? i have noticed that often when a loose/passive donk calls all the way he is just paying off with crap hands but when he plays back he often got good cards. So is it right ? When a loose/passive guy plays back he got it and if he just calls all way he got like third pair ?
Explain to me what passiveness mean to.
Thanks !
 
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pierceisgod

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I play without hud because its starting to be unrealiable your just getting really unlucky.
 
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cheaptrix

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vpip and pfr isn't going to tell you how he plays postflop. aggression frequency, aggression percentage (i prefer over AF), check raise flop, check raise turn, calls c-bet, folds to c-bet, donk bets, folds to donk bet... just to name a few.
 
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cheaptrix

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but what is passive ? is it that if he plays back at you he got a good hand ? i have noticed that often when a loose/passive donk calls all the way he is just paying off with crap hands but when he plays back he often got good cards. So is it right ? When a loose/passive guy plays back he got it and if he just calls all way he got like third pair ?
Explain to me what passiveness mean to.
Thanks !

generally YES, if a passive player raises you can safely muck one pair. but i wouldn't consider 50/20 all that passive, definitely loose though. you need to look at other stats to determine if top pair has positive equity.
 
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RythmAndBlues

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vpip and pfr isn't going to tell you how he plays postflop. aggression frequency, aggression percentage (i prefer over AF), check raise flop, check raise turn, calls c-bet, folds to c-bet, donk bets, folds to donk bet... just to name a few.
OK so how can i know if a player can re raise me with weak hands or he actually got a hand through Aggresion frequency ?
Thanks appreciate it !
 
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RythmAndBlues

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generally YES, if a passive player raises you can safely muck one pair. but i wouldn't consider 50/20 all that passive, definitely loose though. you need to look at other stats to determine if top pair has positive equity.
Such as which stats ?
 
long_bong

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I dont understand the stats and i lost a whole lot of money to a donkey
he had VP 50 and PR 20 and i thought that if i get a pair im gonna get good payout by betting strong because he called raises with J-3s and such as....

But then one hand i get KJ and raises and he calls and flop comes K 3 9
he check i bet he calls turn 2 i bet again he raises i call river 4 he bet and i call and he shows K9... i mean if the VP is high that means he is loose but if the PR is far away from the VP that means passive i know... but what is passive ? is it that if he plays back at you he got a good hand ? i have noticed that often when a loose/passive donk calls all the way he is just paying off with crap hands but when he plays back he often got good cards. So is it right ? When a loose/passive guy plays back he got it and if he just calls all way he got like third pair ?
Explain to me what passiveness mean to.
Thanks !


Why are you using a hud if you don't know what all the stats mean and how to use this tool to your advantage in spots?

Honestly RandB from what i have read from you around the forum the last couple of days it really sounds like you should be playing for an amount or limit that means absolutely nothing to you. Until you understand what your doing at the table I think your just bleeding chips. What ever type of Hud you are using I would strongly advise you to go to there support site forum and look for videos that show you how to utilize HM or PT to your utmost ability.

Also, maybe you could go sign up for a free 7 day trial at duecescracked I know they have a really good video series by I cannot name who but just do a search, the series walks you through Hm/PT flopzilla tableninja all that jazz.


Just Do It
 
MediaBLITZ

MediaBLITZ

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i thought that if i get a pair im gonna get good payout
TERRIBLE THINKING - you have already decided to escalate a betting war with this guy if you get a pair. You haven't seen a flop, you don't know what he has done, you don't know anything except if you get a pair you are going to barrel the guy all the way to showdown! That is the worst kind of approach! Sure you do want to get in a hand with the guy but you still have to play intelligent poker. You thought this guy was an auto-teller and you got your ass handed to you. Why in the hell would you think top pair medium kicker is such a great a hand. Because he has a high VPiP??? You still want to have at least an average hand to go to war with, don't you? FYI - that was a below average hand that ran into an average hand.
Passive is the opposite of aggressive - in other words passive does not raise and certainly does not 3-bet. If it does - guess what???
But each player is unique - you have to figure out what's in their head. The HUD is to help you do that. As some already said, those are PF stats and all it might mean is the guy likes to see a LOT of flops. He might be a demon post flop. Thats where you dig deeper in the HUD to find out.
You really need to forget about a HUD, forget about playing the player and learn to play ABC poker - which means learning to lay hands down. I'm going to go out on a limb and say that is your major problem. You won't lay down a hand. That added to overvaluing your hands leads to a faucet wide open on your wallet.
 
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RythmAndBlues

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You guys make me feel like a really suck at poker but actually i´m an okay player, i know i have much to learn but still...
Well i´m obv using a HUD to improve my game, using it right now and i´m up about 2 BIs (playing 2 tables only) But i think ill get better by using it more.
 
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cheaptrix

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You guys make me feel like a really suck at poker but actually i´m an okay player, i know i have much to learn but still...
Well i´m obv using a HUD to improve my game, using it right now and i´m up about 2 BIs (playing 2 tables only) But i think ill get better by using it more.

i don't know if anyone here can really help you with analyzing stats. i never focused on deep stack games so post flop stats are something i don't pay much attention too but i do know for cash games you need to dig deep into your HUD.

i've heard deuces cracked has some (or maybe one) video that explains many of the important HUD stats to crush cash games.
plus you will get numerous other vids that are sure to help you get better at this game.
i'd spend the money for a month subscription if i were you.
 
suit2please

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I think you are relying too much on HUD stats. You should be playing your game and using the stats to help you make decisions, they do not make the decisions for you. Also, the stats the HUD gives you take time to mean anything. After few hands a 70/50 could still be a nit.
 
moemtg

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When a HUD is properly used and going back into Holdem Manager 2 and analyzing your play, you should be at least getting better with fixing leaks in your game, etc. If you read some of my former posts, I have ripped on HUD's stating that in real life you don't get a Heads Up Display over your opponents heads in the casinoes. Granted.... but I finally gave in and got the trial of HEM2 (I tried PT3 and I did not like it one bit as opposed to HEM2). I am not only half way through my trial period and I honestly do not know how I played without it.... It has definitely refined my game by a good 75% in the positive.

Let's face it... it is worth the $90 for pay for it... and I will be purchasing the license for it when I get my disability on the 1st of June.
 
moemtg

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Just ignore the hater's... It really shocks me when some of the member's on here with a lot of posts revert to their "two year old" manners. Shame!

My two cents,
Moe.:cool:
 
Arjonius

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It's not especially important whether people think you're a good player, okay, poor or a complete fish. What's far more important is developing enough game to be a consistent winner at the level you play.

As well, it's probably to your advantage to have people underestimate you, particularly your opponents.
 
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gazrosenau

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ive only just started to use a HUD maybe it whould be a good thing to practise using it in a play money situation just to get a handle on how to read the stats properly.

this way your not bleeding money away
 
acky100

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learn to fold 1 pair hands when fish raise unless you know they raise with worse, most fish have it when they raise. I recommended starting lower than 10nl when you were asking if you should move up to 50nl lol. If the money is getting to you then seriously think about it. Oh and i think everyone on this forum myself included sucks at poker dont worry about it, realising this is probably beneficial, it has been to me so far.
 
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RythmAndBlues

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Just ignore the hater's... It really shocks me when some of the member's on here with a lot of posts revert to their "two year old" manners. Shame!

My two cents,
Moe.:cool:
craap i just bought PT3 like 2 days ago, is it worth switching to HM2 you think ?

Or what do you guys say ?
 
Colbefc

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I have HM1 which I like and HM2 which I dont and used to use PT which I liked, but a lot of peole love HM2 so whichever you choose just take your time learning how to use it.
When I started I only used 2 stats on my HUD and slowly built them up cos its no use having 3 lines of stats if you dont know what they mean.
 
micromachine

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craap i just bought PT3 like 2 days ago, is it worth switching to HM2 you think ?

Or what do you guys say ?

Stick with PT3...you've bought it so buying HEM as well would be a waste of money.

In terms of functionality they both do the job very well. I haven't tried HEM but the general consensus from everything I've read is that you can't go wrong with either.
 
long_bong

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Nobody in here is attempting to make you feel any emotions. We are simply answering your posts.

Sorry if our advice makes you feel this way.

It should not, any advice should if anything open your eyes and put a smile on your face RandB.

As for hM1 hM2 vs PT3 same thing different name is all, they both give you what you will need, but like another member above said a hud isn;t for making decisions when playing, its for when you are stuck and need more information to help a decision is all.
 
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