Someone wants me to coach them.

darkassassin89

darkassassin89

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Ok I met a guy at the poker room in Santa Fe NM and he wants lessons. I thought I'd come to my fav place for ploker and ask a few questions here. I already know the game and how to play, but teaching.... That can be a difficult task.
I want to start him from the ground up. He knows the game but he is a fish. I've seen him play.

Can any coaches give me some training tips or some 101 stuff to work with him.
Lastly what's a good hourly rate or session rate?

Thanks in advance guys.
 
T-Dubs82

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some rates that i have seen are quite large, it obviously depends on how accolplished a player/coach you are
 
darkassassin89

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As a player, I know I can beat the live cash games. 1/2 2/5nl
But I've never coached. I guess I'll start from the beginning, suggest some books the he must get.
I'm strictly going to be teaching him how to beat the live cash games 1/3nl
If anyone can give me some input or advice. I would deeply appreciate.
 
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As a player, I know I can beat the live cash games. 1/2 2/5nl
But I've never coached. I guess I'll start from the beginning, suggest some books the he must get.
I'm strictly going to be teaching him how to beat the live cash games 1/3nl
If anyone can give me some input or advice. I would deeply appreciate.

Does he play online? If so, I'd recommend your having him record a two-hour session of play, after which you can review his play together. I think that's the most effective way to coach or be coached.

-HooDooKoo
 
BluffMeAllIn

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My only thought regarding the hourly wage would be to look at it in comparison perhaps of the $$ that you could make if you played poker for that hour, plus an adjustment bump for taking a fish out of the game that could lower your future earnings from the game.

So for example in 2/5 if your beating it consitently for say 10bb/100, well live we all know if you get 50 hands /hour your doing ok so you would be looking at 25$/hr that you are loosing out on by coaching rather than playing. Just based on this you would want to charge 25$/hr min and perhaps adjust to that x2 for your involved time, effort knowledge sharing and improvement of their game (ie the coaching aspect). Just a thought on a quick and dirty way to look at it, as well as taking into account that via coaching you are generally teaching them how you think in terms of the game and therefore potential of no longer making $$ from them at the times or at least not as much as you once did if you both play at the same limits (which given 1/2 is generally the lowest live you would)

My suggestion would be make yourself out a plan, does he want specific coaching or overall start to finish improvement of his game, does he recognize leaks in his game he needs specific help with or do you perhaps know these from playing etc. You want an action plan so you know where to focus and to stay on track given you havn't tought/coached before. As a player we focus but also have many thoughts going through out head, as a teacher we need to be focused and have particular organization of the thoughts and actions we will be taking or we could go off track and confuse the student more.

Think of it no different than if you were doing a course in college in a way, basically first thing you get in the course is an outline of what you are going to cover. This is the instructors plan for the length of the course, sure other topics may come up and be looked at but these are the key necesarry items that have to be covered to meet course requirements. This is no different, as the student to your coaching they should also have expectations of you with regards to the plan of action.

Just my thoughts as of now, might be a little disorganized but hope not too much so for you to get the point I am trying to make with it all. Personally I think coaching another player would be a great way to improve on your own game as well, if nothing more than to strengthen the fundamentals, as it is going to involve much thought as to what you will be discussing etc prior to actually starting the coaching. Also example based scenarios work well to back up theory etc, as too many words without pictures is very uninteresting most of the time and could lose the student and cause them to get nothing out of the coaching (being at fault of both parties).

Good Luck with it.
 
BluffMeAllIn

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Does he play online? If so, I'd recommend your having him record a two-hour session of play, after which you can review his play together. I think that's the most effective way to coach or be coached.

-HooDooKoo
Sweat sessions were one of my first thouhts as well hoodoo but figuring he indicated coaching re live 1/2 stakes only I didn't bother to mention this myself, but yes this is the scenario of being able to reflect on how he actually played and getting his feedback on why he did what he did etc would enable you to see more areas that coaching/teaching might be required.
 
Reptar7

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Hourly rate should be above min wage and below what you typically make playing for an hour (IMO, just because it is guaranteed money vs the potential to lose).

Coaching ideas: sign him up for cardrunners for a free month and watch vids, do sweat sessions, tell him to read some books, set up HEM for him and teach him to understand the stats and give him some ideas of where his stats should be (like don't play above 20% of hands).
 
darkassassin89

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Thanks a ton guys! I did a sweat session with him live at the poker room. I just watched him play. I have a lot of work to do with him :(((
But he is def. willing to learn. Right now I'm focusing on him learning his outs.
He only knows how to match his cards and play like he has the nuts with any pair lol!
Positives tho, he has a stone cold face! Possibly a great factor for him. And he's not scared to play or call, but he is a calling station. :( I'll keep everyone posted on our progress. We have a long road ahead of us
 
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Ok I met a guy at the poker room in Santa Fe NM and he wants lessons. I thought I'd come to my fav place for ploker and ask a few questions here. I already know the game and how to play, but teaching.... That can be a difficult task.
I want to start him from the ground up. He knows the game but he is a fish. I've seen him play.

Can any coaches give me some training tips or some 101 stuff to work with him.
Lastly what's a good hourly rate or session rate?

Thanks in advance guys.


By the way, coaching is a great way to improve your game, Good luck with it.

learn from the best maybe... youtube anything you want and you will find loads. gripsed , negreanu... Get yourself a note pad and get writing down anything useful from the vids :)
 
Poker Orifice

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Helen Keller takes Stevie Wonder to the wsop final table
 
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a tip i got told if you coach neave teach them all you know or you will soon be going broke to them

gl with it tho
 
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I have seen coaching start out at $20 an hour all the way to $1k plus. Obviously your teaching him how to beat live but I think it would be a good idea to start him playing online and teach him how to win because you will be able to see a lot more hands online and against for the most part better players.
 
darkassassin89

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I have seen coaching start out at $20 an hour all the way to $1k plus. Obviously your teaching him how to beat live but I think it would be a good idea to start him playing online and teach him how to win because you will be able to see a lot more hands online and against for the most part better players.

I would love to do this, however he is an old school guy. He's An older gentlemen, does not have access to internet, but is very intelegent. I've already found his leaks and started plugging them right away.
He is a complete noob, I can't even say fish bc fish have some idea of how the game works, but my student doesn't. I wanted to have a sweat session at the live table and I didn't even need to see his cards to know that he is clueless about poker.
The positive tho, he has a sick poker face. Very difficult to get a read, he is not scared to play, bet, raise, be Agro.
Then again he would look at his hand like a game of pitch BJ lifting his cards up so everyone can see. I was shocked that I had to actually explain to him to cover/protect his hand.
He's a smart guy just super new to poker.

What would be some good books to start him with? I did my beginner studies for CC but from ebooks. I need to find a hard copy of a beginner cash game book.

If anyone can help here I woulde appreciate it.
 
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False in my oppinion.

Since any coach who teaches someone all they know and doesn't have the ability to adapt is not the complete player.
There for them coaching is questionable in the first place.

For example Gripsed has over a million subscribers worldwide on youtube.

If I was him I would be rubbing my hands together at the aspect of teaching so many people my strategy, as they are using my thought concept and It will be exploitable since you can more accurately eliminate unorthadox plays from their game (and much more)
 
darkassassin89

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False in my oppinion.

Since any coach who teaches someone all they know and doesn't have the ability to adapt is not the complete player.
There for them coaching is questionable in the first place.

For example Gripsed has over a million subscribers worldwide on youtube.

If I was him I would be rubbing my hands together at the aspect of teaching so many people my strategy, as they are using my thought concept and It will be exploitable since you can more accurately eliminate unorthadox plays from their game (and much more)

The way I see it. Every strategy has a counter strategy. A counter attack. All great players know how to adjust vs every style of poker player. If not then pick up a book or as questions. Simple as that
 
duggs

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respectfully i think you would be ripping him off big time if you charged for coaching.

there isnt an effective counter strategy to every strategy, that is the definition of GTO
 
darkassassin89

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respectfully i think you would be ripping him off big time if you charged for coaching.

there isnt an effective counter strategy to every strategy, that is the definition of GTO

GTO?

And he approached me. He wanted my assistance. And offered to compensate me.
With that said, I want to do the best I can to help him become a better player
 
dmorris68

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GTO = Game Theory Optimal

I'd approach this carefully. You may well know more about poker than him at this stage, but that doesn't necessarily make you a good coach. Heck you could be a mega-winning player and still be a lousy coach. This biggest risk I see is if you're not sufficiently qualified both as a player AND a coach, with him being the blank slate you describe, you could easily instill some flaws or bad habits that might appear to improve his game now but could seriously cost him later.

I would lean toward encouraging him to read some books, being careful in your selection because dated books are largely obsolete, or watch some videos. Then he can ask you to help fill in the gaps he doesn't quite get. In turn you should be honest with him when he comes to you with something above your skill level, and tell him you will research for both of you and come back to him. This kind of honest relationship will prevent the "recipe for disaster" potential from steering him too far off course. In doing so, you can charge him a nominal rate that is worth your time and that he's comfortable paying. Hard to say how much that is, but off-hand probably <$25/hr.
 
darkassassin89

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GTO = Game Theory Optimal

I'd approach this carefully. You may well know more about poker than him at this stage, but that doesn't necessarily make you a good coach. Heck you could be a mega-winning player and still be a lousy coach. This biggest risk I see is if you're not sufficiently qualified both as a player AND a coach, with him being the blank slate you describe, you could easily instill some flaws or bad habits that might appear to improve his game now but could seriously cost him later.

I would lean toward encouraging him to read some books, being careful in your selection because dated books are largely obsolete, or watch some videos. Then he can ask you to help fill in the gaps he doesn't quite get. In turn you should be honest with him when he comes to you with something above your skill level, and tell him you will research for both of you and come back to him. This kind of honest relationship will prevent the "recipe for disaster" potential from steering him too far off course. In doing so, you can charge him a nominal rate that is worth your time and that he's comfortable paying. Hard to say how much that is, but off-hand probably <$25/hr.

Thx guys. Math by the numbers. This book has been solid for basics. And that's what I've been going over with my student.
 
stately7

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Does anyone know if this book is good?
"No-Limit Texas Hold'em: A Complete Course" by Angel Largay.

It apparently deals only with low-stakes live casino cash (1/2, perhaps 2/5), but I've been thinking about grabbing it for this specifically. May also be useful for OP?
 
Cafeman

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The way I see it. Every strategy has a counter strategy. A counter attack. All great players know how to adjust vs every style of poker player. If not then pick up a book or as questions. Simple as that
I think you probably meant to say, a good player should be able to adjust their game to exploit the other players' weaknesses. Once you start doing this, you then also become exploitable, but this is usually the way to make the most money at the table.

Some kind of understanding of GTO is probably a good idea though.

I would say, charge the guy nothing and just use it as an exercise in working out your own thought processes. Cos often (I find) it's not until you come to try to describe why you do something that you realise you come up short for valid reasons hehe.
 
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