Some examples of hands, what would you do?

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RamdeeBen

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I have a tricky time with A,K/A,Q/A,J/A,10 and this is for 6 max.

Obviously you're raising in any position with A through to Js and a raise in late position with A,10s if there's no action. The questions I have are these.

Say for example I raise with A,Q and I am re-raised you then flat call. First of, is that the correct move?
Now post flop an Ace lands, you bet and are re-raised, do you call? The reason I ask is because you was re-raised do you automatically put him on A,K?

All-in post flop is common if both hit the ace and I will call most times with A,K or Queen.

Now the same applies to A,J,10....are you folding if you're re-raised and possibly put all in? You can only put them on either A higher kicker or they hit a set which is unavoidable and you're probably going broke.

Also if you have A,K and raise and someone calls, are you always calling all-ins with them if you hit the ace?

EDIT: Basically are one pair good enough (if top pair post flop) with a highish kicker good enough to call an all-in move in micros? I've called them before a few times and in most cases to find I'm up against a low A and thankfully I think most times my kicker has held out..or few rare times I'm up against a set. Is it a profitable move to call them long term at the micros?

The other night was a perfect example, I raised with A,K and someone called. Cut a long story short after an ace landed and few raises post flop he pushed and I called for him to show over K,10. My Ace,King held up and I thought wtf was he doing? Do these people just see a top pair and don't know anything about kicker so think their hand is best even though they was RAISED preflop?
 
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WVHillbilly

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How often do people 3bet at your stakes?
 
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RamdeeBen

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The regulars will 3bet who sit there grinding all day.

So what's your opinion Billy please? Give me one of your in-dept examples, usually helps me!
 
WVHillbilly

WVHillbilly

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What I'm trying to get to is that it depends on how often they're 3betting.

It's VERY VERY LIKELY that they're not 3betting enough to make calling with AT-AQ anywhere near profitable.
 
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RamdeeBen

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What I'm trying to get to is that it depends on how often they're 3betting.

It's VERY VERY LIKELY that they're not 3betting enough to make calling with AT-AQ anywhere near profitable.

Well by 3bet, do you mean pre flop or post flop? Isn't a 3 bet just a standard raise anyway?

I don't actually understand what you're saying to me... You saying that I should fold If I'm 3bet and I'm holding A,Q/A,J?

I always thought that you should raise PF with A,Q/A,J and if re-raised just flat calling it?

ps: How can A,J/A,Q not be profitable if 80% of the pots are raised preflop in 6max (from my experience) with worse hands than A,Q/A,J. This is micros btw billy if that helps.
 
Pascal-lf

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3bet pre:

Blinds -> Raise -> reraise

3bet post:

Bet -> raise -> reraise

Please back up your claim that "80% of the pots are raised preflop with worse hands than A,Q/A,J". Oh and regardless of this claim just because someone is raising with something worse doesn't mean they are 3betting/calling a 3bet with worse.
 
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RamdeeBen

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Well ok I can't actually backup that they are worse hands I'm just quite sure of it but over all the hands I've played at 6max a high majority and probably is close to 80% of them are raised PF (a lot of the time for the steal) A lot of the time it's the regs who are raising trying to push out everyone, that's why I will re-raise them with even a marginal hand and a lot of the time they will fold which led me to the conclusion that majority of hands will be worse than A,Q,A,J.

I'm clearly missing something here with what 3 bet actually means. Can you give an in-dept explanation please? Your last sentence doesn't make any sense to me.

thanks for the reply..
 
WVHillbilly

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Preflop.

This is what I mean:
Full Tilt - $1 NL - Holdem - 9 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 3

BTN: $98.50
SB: $115.95
BB: $170.10
UTG: $100.00
UTG+1: $100.00
Hero (MP): $100.50
MP+1: $41.75
LP: $35.00
CO: $39.50

SB posts SB $0.50, BB posts BB $1.00

Pre Flop: ($1.50) Hero has A:spade: Q:heart:

fold, fold, Hero raises to $3.50, MP+1 raises to $11.00, fold, fold, fold, fold, fold, fold

MP+1 wins $8.50


I folded to the 3bet.

Open PokerStove and see how these hands fair against different 3bet ranges.

For example against a 5% 3bet range:
AQ - 38.5% equity
AJ - 34%
AT - 31%

AK on the other hand has 47%.

Also when you do flop an Ace with AT-AQ in a 3bet pot if you do end up getting stacks in (easy to do with a preflop 3bet) you're VERY rarely getting it in with the best hand.
 
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RamdeeBen

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Thanks for the reply Billy. I kind of understand, I guess this is why I'm at micros though as I really need to study the equity part quite a bit more....All seems very complicated though lol. Thanks again,
 
WVHillbilly

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Thanks for the reply Billy. I kind of understand, I guess this is why I'm at micros though as I really need to study the equity part quite a bit more....All seems very complicated though lol. Thanks again,

I think you'll find that against regular players at micro stakes they 3bet too little, not too much so calling 3bets as a rule is never going to be profitable and you're likely best to adopt a 4bet (with your strong hands QQ+/AK) or fold (everything else) approach. You can begin to think about flatting 3bets with things like pp when stacks are deep (say 150bb+ effective) or your opponent does something stupid like min 3betting a strong range.

I play FR though so it's possible my ranges are WAY off and you should be 4betting JJ/AQ but I honestly doubt it.
 
rssurfer54

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I play FR though so it's possible my ranges are WAY off and you should be 4betting JJ/AQ but I honestly doubt it.

are you talking about regs or fish? i think you are right im just curious.
 
WVHillbilly

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Depends on the reg or the fish. :)

If they 3bet too much we add to our stacking range. If they 3bet too little we tighten up. So a ultra-passive fish 3betting means we can fold JJ pretty easily but a maniac 3betting means we can stack AJ.
 
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RamdeeBen

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Ahhh thats far easier to understand the logic in that last comment Billy. I understand what you're saying now! Cheers.

Now this concept is easy to do and put into action if you have full watch on your table(s) but say you're multi-tabling and it's hard to actually keep track of tight/loose players, what do you do then? Play even tighter?
 
JOEBOB69

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The micro regs for 6max 3bets on AVERAGE from what info i have~5-7% from the blinds vs late postion steals.So i will 4bet complete air some very little though,AJs-AK\10 10-AA for vaule.If i get shoved on obv i'm only calling AK\QQ-AA.If they flat call the 4bet it gets very very tricky,ummmm maybe i souldn't be 4 betting AQs but it's hard when regs or likely restealing.

Edit: the 5-7% 3bet is over all the 3bet from the blinds vs late postion steal is higher 9-15% depending.
 
rssurfer54

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The micro regs for 6max 3bets on AVERAGE from what info i have~5-7% from the blinds vs late postion steals.So i will 4bet complete air some very little though,AJs-AK\10 10-AA for vaule.If i get shoved on obv i'm only calling AK\QQ-AA.If they flat call the 4bet it gets very very tricky,ummmm maybe i souldn't be 4 betting AQs but it's hard when regs or likely restealing.

Edit: the 5-7% 3bet is over all the 3bet from the blinds vs late postion steal is higher 9-15% depending.

5-7% is "likely restealing"? what?
 
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