Some advice for 2NL 9max before I lose my bankroll

Luvart

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It seems that I will lose my first bankroll at 2NL full-ring.

I started with a 25$ first deposit last July, with all the bonuses I boosted it to 59$ playing 2NL full-ring ZOOM, then I lost about 25-30 dollars and decided to stop for a while. I played without a HUD. I decided to use a HUD starting from the 1st of January with the remaining bankroll at 33$ about. This time I played 2NL full-ring 2 or 3 regular tables trying to play on tables with a bunch of fish. I only look my bankroll and HUD stats every Sunday. So for the first three weeks my stats are these:

-1st Week 1/1-7/1:

Hands played:
2.039
Winrate: 4.36bb/100
VPIP/PFR/AF/3bet/Fold-to-3bet/ATS/Fold-to-Steal: 9/7/3.65/2/73/42/87

Cbet on the flop/Cbet on the turn/Cbet on the river:
73/37/50
Fold-to-Cbet: 71


-2nd Week 8/1-14/1:

Hands played: 1.695
Winrate: -14.5bb/100
VPIP/PFR/AF/3bet/Fold-to-3bet/ATS/Fold-to-Steal: 9/7/3.94/1/47/44/83

Cbet on the flop/Cbet on the turn/Cbet on the river:
74/39/33
Fold-to-Cbet: 75


-3rd Week 15/1-21/1:

Hands played: 3.251
Winrate: -7.78bb/100
VPIP/PFR/AF/3bet/Fold-to-3bet/ATS/Fold-to-Steal: 8/6/3.25/1/56/28/79
Cbet on the flop/Cbet on the turn/Cbet on the river: 58/56/50
Fold-to-Cbet: 59

Apart from the first week, I lose. Even with the HUD I still lose. How much more tight to play? Also, this week's results went massively down from two huge suckouts (full house vs full house, full house vs quads) I "ate" yesterday. Coolers don't help me at all.

Some kind of advice before I lose my entire bankroll? 2 -3 most important things I have to change ? Leaks on my stats and especially for the 3-bet, the stealing stats and the cbet on the flop? I don't want to loose my game being a beginner yet.
 
DannyWhite

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I think if you play cash you should play more position than cards...and if you want to play cash I suggest hunt for flush or straight with 67 TJ or with late position you can try even with82
 
thatguy6793

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Well just a few things I noticed, which you can take or leave since their really just my observations, is that just from these stats it looks like you're playing a bit to tight and a bit too passive when you do play. 8-9% of hands, even in cash games is really tight and when you're limiting yourself to so few hands people are generally going to catch on and either fold to any bet you make or just loosen up and bluff you off any pot that doesn't hit your range. Also, when you're playing this tight you need to be really aggressive so that when you have the best hand you get paid for it. My advice would be to work on three general things. Try to add a few more hands to your range, this will let your big hands be less obvious and win you more BB in the long run when people think your AA is actually A5 or something along those lines and you can bluff a bit more. Also, I would also look to raise your PFR. I'm sure you know that isolation and position are huge in cash games so use that to your advantage because the less people limping in the less chance that someone will get a better hand than you, but it also gets more money in the pot for your best hands making your payouts a lot better. And finally, it looks like you're folding to steals a lot. I would suggest hear that you look at at the players stats and if it looks like they're stealing a lot and you have a fairly ok hand that you call or even re-raise them. Sometimes you can pick up a pot right then and there if you show a sign of strength to someone that steals every orbit you you could pick up a really nice flop and get some extra cash out of him.

That's just my take on some things that you can easily change for next week, hopefully some of that advice helps you out!
 
Luvart

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How much to increase my VPIP ? I made a check to the HUD and saw there are guys with VPIP/PFR 10/9 having winrates of 35bb/100. I play some suited connectors from LP.

Postflop I have an AF of 3.5 on average.

The first two weeks i have almost the same stats but my winrate is 4.5bb/100 the first week and -15bb the second.....??

My folding to steals is a bit high and I need to work on that. Also, the first two weeks my cbet on the flop + cbet on the turn had a difference of 40 points which means some guys could float me a lot, and that's why the 3rd week I tried to be a bit more balanced post as far as it concerns my cbet stats.

I have about 20$, so I am already underbankrolled for 2NL. I'm thinking to quit auto top up too, as it doesnt help me at all to control the sessions. I don't know.....
 
absoluthamm

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Essentially double your VPIP and PFR for a start, 18/15 is going to at least open you up a little bit and not be such a pushover and extremely easy to read.

<10 with your VPIP and you're going to get pushed around constantly. You can already see that with your Fold v Steal and Fold v CB. Seeing a player with your stats, I am going to raise it with any two cards if you're in the BB. Not to mention, you're not going to get much of any action from anyone paying attention to your play, because if you're playing and show any aggression, you most likely have something. What you probably do see happening is getting your big hands cracked by sets, I love to setmine players with your stats, because when I hit it on the flop, you've already committed yourself(look at your AF and your CB Flop numbers).


It also looks like you're giving up on the flop when you get a call, your CB Turn and River plummet. When I see that, it's going to also push me to float you and then just raise you when you don't CB on the following streets, regardless of what I have, because you're showing that you're giving up.


FWIW, you're not underbankrolled for 2NL, because you can't really be under for the bottom unless you're under the minimum buyin. Also, I strongly advise against playing without auto-top-up. You're missing out on opportunities to maximize your winnings when you don't have a full buyin. Not to mention it's also another label that screams "Fish" when I see people that aren't fully bought in, you don't need another reason for that tag to be attributed to your username.
 
Luvart

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Essentially double your VPIP and PFR for a start, 18/15 is going to at least open you up a little bit and not be such a pushover and extremely easy to read.

<10 with your VPIP and you're going to get pushed around constantly. You can already see that with your Fold v Steal and Fold v CB. Seeing a player with your stats, I am going to raise it with any two cards if you're in the BB.

Even for a beginner at full-ring ? Isn' t it a bit risky for me who don't have my postflop skills mastered ? So I think I have to play more suited connectors, one-gappers, some suited Kings, etc from CO and BtN. From EP (the first 3 seats) I play very tight a VPIP of about 4%.....

It also looks like you're giving up on the flop when you get a call, your CB Turn and River plummet. When I see that, it's going to also push me to float you and then just raise you when you don't CB on the following streets, regardless of what I have, because you're showing that you're giving up.

The Cbet stats the 3rd week are good?


FWIW, you're not underbankrolled for 2NL, because you can't really be under for the bottom unless you're under the minimum buyin. Also, I strongly advise against playing without auto-top-up.

Good points. Yes, I will keep buying the maximum and auto top up. That's poker, I have to accept it. If I get busto, so be it.
 
absoluthamm

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Opening up to 18/15 is not asking to be crazy. Just from Pokerstove we are looking at basically 66+,A5s+,K9s+,Q9s+,J9s+,ATo+,KTo+,QTo+. Obviously you're not playing those hands from every position, but also, you might want to look at villains stats and throw in some worse hands when you have position on say an extremely tight-passive player such as your current stats show.

Yes your CB stats were better the 3rd week, could be a bit higher, and to be honest, given your very tight range, I'm surprised that they aren't ridiculously high. A lot of players that are playing that tight have like 90+% CB on the flop, 75+ on the turn and river. All because they are limiting their starting hands to high pairs and high broadways.


It's a little bit outdated as far as some of the stats go because I wrote it like 9 years ago, but check out the link in my signature for my Holdem Manager Stat Guide(don't worry, it doesn't need to be HEM for the stat information to help).
 
Luvart

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Opening up to 18/15 is not asking to be crazy. Just from Pokerstove we are looking at basically 66+,A5s+,K9s+,Q9s+,J9s+,ATo+,KTo+,QTo+. Obviously you're not playing those hands from every position, but also, you might want to look at villains stats and throw in some worse hands when you have position on say an extremely tight-passive player such as your current stats show.

Good points too ! I will keep that. Also I will try to increase my 3bet about 1 point. I will make another little break from poker in order to work again on my game.

It seems any time I make breaks to work on my game I go ever worse....lol :confused:
 
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try to steal more from late position from tight players ,also raise more when fish limp
 
lifesagamble99

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id say dont think about increasing your vpip too much honestly well maybe a little lol if its 9% but more try work out what hands you know you can play profitably and from which postion or against which opponent and start doing that instead and cause your range is so strong by default cause your tight 3bet more and also dont do stupid standard min raise or 2.5bb opens that seem to be so popular all of a sudden, pot that shit or 4x even as your range is just gonna be so much stronger equity wise than most.
play good aces good kings and play good suited connectors more so in later positions (not shit low ones unless your getting the right price) and from the blinds honestly id say adopt a 3bet or fold strategy so basically play dirt tight in the sb specifically and bb hmm depends limp in with some hands or cold call certain hands that do well multiway and if its not that sort 3bet it.
other than that its really just working on your postflop game and sizing your bets appropriately each street (dont do the same size each street or on any board texture really think about how your sizing your bets and also why your doing so) good luck dude. also play 6max your naturally have to sort of loosen up somewhat there also cause less people and most flops go heads up it can help you work on your postflop game quicker.

in fact you can almost scrap alot of what i said above, and just do this instead look for mistakes of your opponents and punish said mistakes look for patterns pay attention to showdowns how stationy or tight they are postflop etc and which streets etc and yh make less mistakes yourself (there sould be plenty at the micros palyer pools) once you notice a mistake create a opponent specific strategy to part that individual with his chips. good luck, its all about punishing opponents mistakes making less yourself and setting up situations for your opponent to make big costly mistakes
 
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pauloandre100

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create a range of solid hands per position
 
invisible10

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play more aggressive in position think u folding to much to 3bets also looks too tight passive don't think that style can make money long term . keep working hard you'll get there
 
WabiSabi

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Personally i would move to 6 max regular tables but whatever you do playing under rolled as a beginner is going to be really really tough.For 6 max you can start with tight ranges from each position.

utg 10%
mp 15%
c/o 20%
btn 40%
sb 30%

then download combonator
https://combonator.com/

And from each position plug it into combonator and work out a 35% defense frequency vs a 3bet so 65% fold vs 3bet from each position and don't worry about being in or out of position. Just play out of position tight defense ranges to start with.

Heres some tighter cold call ranges , copy and paste to equilab and then you can plug them into flopzilla.https://www.pokerstrategy.com/poker-software-tools/equilab-holdem/

MPvsUTG QQ-55, AJs+, KQs, JTs, T9s, 98s, AQo+
COvsUTG QQ-55, ATs+, KQs, JTs, T9s, 98s, 87s, AQo+
BTNvsUTG QQ-22, ATs+, KQs, JTs, T9s, 98s, 87s, 76s, AQo+
SBvsUTG QQ-55, AQs+, AQo+
BBvsUTG QQ-22, ATs+, KQs, JTs, AQo+

COvsMP QQ-55, ATs+, KJs+, QJs, JTs, T9s, 98s, 87s, 76s, AQo+
BTNvsMP JJ-22, AQs-ATs, KTs+, QTs+, J9s+, T9s, 98s, 87s, 76s, 65s, AQo+
SBvsMP QQ-55, AQs, KQs, AQo+
BBvsMP QQ-22, ATs+, KJs+, QJs, JTs, AQo+

SBvsBTN TT-55,AJs-ATs,KTs+,QTs+,JTs,AJo,KJo+,QJo
BBvsBTN TT-22,ATs-A2s,K8s+,Q8s+,J8s+,T8s+,98s,AJo-A2o,K9o+,Q9o+,J9o+,T9o

BBvsSB 99-22,ATs-A2s,K7s+,Q7s+,J7s+,T7s+,97s+,87s,AJo-A2o,K8o+,Q8o+,J8o+,T8o+,98o


Use flopzilla to store all the ranges to check while your playing
http://www.flopzilla.com/

If you need any more advise just send me a pm or whatever and and ill try and help however i can.


gl.
 
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Poker Orifice

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Don't be too down on yourself. It's all learning. The time you've put in so far is not wasted. Just because your bankroll has not gone up, there's still lots of value in the experience you've gained so far.Maybe ... 'maybe', lay off a tad on the numbers. Instead, work on your postflop game & hand-reading. I'm not suggesting the stats. aren't important but if your VPIP is 12 (up from current 10), etc. etc. etc. with other adjustments, you're not just going to start winning.
Start to work on areas of your game, making adjustments vs. different types of players. ie. learn how to float more vs. others who are cbetting flop & giving up on turn (in other words, perhaps exploit other players who've been playing like YOU have been). Try 3-betting light vs. players you know have high steal %. Post HH's in the forum's cashgame forum. See who's advice you like & learn from.... try following their HH posts. Try to find some others who are trying to learn... both better players and worse & hook up with them online. (trying to express 'how to play' to those who aren't as good as you will also help to improve your own game).


Consider playing 6-max instead of Fullring. When I started out I played only fullring... now I can't stand it (I played tight... now I'm an action junkie to a fault).


Maybe try playing tournaments instead for awhile? Tournaments tend to draw in much fishier players (imo). It's a different game but like anything else once you put in the time you'll get the hang of it.
 
WabiSabi

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I missed out the cold calls vs the CO in the first post so ill repost with all the ranges.



Personally i would move to 6 max regular tables but whatever you do playing under rolled as a beginner is going to be really really tough.For 6 max you can start with tight ranges from each position.

utg 10%
mp 15%
c/o 20%
btn 40%
sb 30%

then download combonator
https://combonator.com/

And from each position plug it into combonator and work out a 35% defense frequency vs a 3bet so 65% fold vs 3bet from each position and don't worry about being in or out of position. Just play out of position tight defense ranges to start with.

Heres some tighter cold call ranges , copy and paste to equilab and then you can plug them into flopzilla.https://www.pokerstrategy.com/poker-...quilab-holdem/

MPvsUTG QQ-55, AJs+, KQs, JTs, T9s, 98s, AQo+
COvsUTG QQ-55, ATs+, KQs, JTs, T9s, 98s, 87s, AQo+
BTNvsUTG QQ-22, ATs+, KQs, JTs, T9s, 98s, 87s, 76s, AQo+
SBvsUTG QQ-55, AQs+, AQo+
BBvsUTG QQ-22, ATs+, KQs, JTs, AQo+

COvsMP QQ-55, ATs+, KJs+, QJs, JTs, T9s, 98s, 87s, 76s, AQo+
BTNvsMP JJ-22, AQs-ATs, KTs+, QTs+, J9s+, T9s, 98s, 87s, 76s, 65s, AQo+
SBvsMP QQ-55, AQs, KQs, AQo+
BBvsMP QQ-22, ATs+, KJs+, QJs, JTs, AQo+

BTNvsCO TT-22,AJs-ATs,KTs+,QTs+,J9s+,T8s+,98s,87s,76s,65s,54s,AQo-AJo,KQo
SBvsCO TT-66, AJs-ATs, KJs+, QJs, AQo-AJo, KQo
BBvsCO JJ-22, AJs-ATs, KTs+, QTs+, JTs, T9s, AQo-AJo, KQo

SBvsBTN TT-55,AJs-ATs,KTs+,QTs+,JTs,AJo,KJo+,QJo
BBvsBTN TT-22,ATs-A2s,K8s+,Q8s+,J8s+,T8s+,98s,AJo-A2o,K9o+,Q9o+,J9o+,T9o

BBvsSB 99-22,ATs-A2s,K7s+,Q7s+,J7s+,T7s+,97s+,87s,AJo-A2o,K8o+,Q8o+,J8o+,T8o+,98o


Use flopzilla to store all the ranges to check while your playing
http://www.flopzilla.com/

If you need any more advise just send me a pm or whatever and and ill try and help however i can.


gl.
 
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Print your profit chart with everything on, it's easier to understand the big picture from that. Opening your range does not make losing player a winning player, most likely just the opposite. There is no counter strategy against nits, except folding. Thus reason hero is losing is in post flop play.
 
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After seeing your hands in analysis section, I suggest you post more questions there and start with standard cases you think you already know, things that happens again and again and again .... well you get my point. I suggest you start with a) Should I CB? b) Can I bet river for value c) Am I too aggressive/passive with draw?

Edit: By no means I don't meant to say your ranges are correct and you shouldn't work with them as instructed above posts, but it's double edged sword, if the foundation is not healthy jumping to wider ranges is not the answer.

Also play one table as long as you can maintain super focus, maybe you can only do 10 minutes, and during that time try to predict hands and make as good notes as you can.
 
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Betmakers

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For cash games 9% VPIP very sad figure. People understand that you do not go into the hand with bad cards, and use it against you. A feature of the game for money is a great range of starting hands + more aggressive action at the table. You are biding card and then you lose.
 
WabiSabi

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sb vs CO should be TT-55, AJs-ATs, KJs+, QJs, AQo-AJo, KQo , ill get it right eventually.
 
Luvart

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Wow guys, you re-born this thread......:)

Strange things from the last time I posted in this thread.

Well, in a nutshell, I've played regular tables, then ZOOM, then back in April regular tables till the early May, the last 2.5 weeks ZOOM again....I've played with HUD, without HUD.....for the last weeks I play without HUD. About back in March I had managed to climb to 47$, then from early April till the end of April I was at the 35-40$ range, and from then I have a massive downsizing again to 12$......I had good and bad times with HUD and without HUD, I had good and bad times at regular tables and ZOOM tables.

I've increased VPIP/PFR to 12.5/9.3-9.5.

This means that I have a somewhat good pre strategy, but I have serious mistakes in my postflop game.

The game, even in ZOOM, is pretty horrible, there are really terrible players, but you can win 2 stacks and then make 2-3 really bad postflop calls or raises, and your daily profit will drop from 4$ to 1.7$......added to this the rake and things become disgusting.......

also, when you run bad, you are running really bad. It's amazing how quickly and clearly the game shows you this and tells you "hey buddy, listen: today ISN'T YOUR DAY!Achieve your stoploss limit and get out....."

I'm completely underbankrolled now and as correctly someone mentioned before, it's very very tough and almost impossible to play an A+ game. I will unavoidably make another one 25$ deposit.
 
Poker Orifice

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After seeing your hands in analysis section, I suggest you post more questions there and start with standard cases you think you already know, things that happens again and again and again .... well you get my point. I suggest you start with a) Should I CB? b) Can I bet river for value c) Am I too aggressive/passive with draw?

Edit: By no means I don't meant to say your ranges are correct and you shouldn't work with them as instructed above posts, but it's double edged sword, if the foundation is not healthy jumping to wider ranges is not the answer.

Also play one table as long as you can maintain super focus, maybe you can only do 10 minutes, and during that time try to predict hands and make as good notes as you can.


Some good points & good suggestions!!
 
WabiSabi

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You can essentially just play big pots with the nuts at 2nl and 5nl and crush those stakes.Don't bother running big bluffs just hit big hands and get paid.
 
c9h13no3

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Quit playing at Stars. Game selection is one of the first skills you're supposed to learn, and pretty much every game at Stars is terrible.
 
WabiSabi

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Quit playing at Stars. Game selection is one of the first skills you're supposed to learn, and pretty much every game at Stars is terrible.


I started back at some of the major sites party poker and poker stars recently after not playing the major sites for 5 or 6 years.I put a bankroll on each for 5nl and have to say they are some of the easiest games to beat over flowing with bad aggressive players.The rakeback isn't anywhere near as good as some other smaller networks.But your win rate even for an ABC TAG should be more than reasonable.I'm not the greatest player by any means but i manage to beat the games for around 16bb/100.

I would say right now Party poker slightly edges it for me and then i like to put a little time in on betfair on ipoker where i get 55% rakeback.It's nice to grind a little on there and complete the daily missions so i tend to stick to mainly these two sites.Ipoker doesn't always have the best traffic so it makes a nice combination of sites to play because when one isn't busy i can find games on the other.

Just make sure you get a good deal with an affiliate for rakeraces and extra bonuses when signing up to any poker site.And if you haven't done so visit a good affiliate site and join up and try and request a retag for your account.I don't know if cards chat does any deals including rakeraces but if not i can always recommend pokervip which is a site worth visiting any way for the free video content they offer.
 
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