slow playing sets

i,m a typical passive/agressive tight player...i play very few hands,it takes a-q or better to get a raise out of me and i try to play the player and not the cards...i mean after all its what i,ve been doing all those hands i,ve folded...watching you.and normally i do good,but as of late i,ve taken some insane beatings,but i,ll limit this post to the 3-4 hits i,ve taken this week while,slow playing sets...at least two of the times were late in the tourney and blinds were large...both times i had hit the sets with 1 whole card...ie i wasnt holding pockets.in both instances i was beaten runner runner turn and river.....my question is simple,do you think slow playing the sets was a bad idea period,or do you think it was a chance of fate...remember my style is very tight....so when i,m in a hand i know they probably think i have something...so i try to slow play because i think the odds are that i had the made hand coming in...anyway look forward to your response

Slow playing is fine. Look back at your own post. Notice that both times, it took runner runner to beat you. Someone hitting runner runner is pretty much always under 5%, regardless of what runner runner draw it is. Slow playing is fine when you have 95% or more to win. If you are going to slow play, expect that every now and then someone puts a bad beat on you. That's okay.

If you're playing very few hands, a couple suckouts will really affect your results. Much less so than someone who plays a lot of pots. That doesn't mean you should change your style, as long as you're playing solid poker.

But, in late stages of a tournament, players are forced to gamble, and that TPTK that someone tossed a few rounds ago is now pretty much unfoldable. I'm just saying that I'd much rather run the risk of not getting any action by playing a set strong than giving a player free (or cheap) cards to draw out on me.

Of all my problems in poker, getting action is usually the least of them.

don,t slow play unless you have the nuts. it will just lead to suckouts.
much better to value bet the piss out of them. people will call with crap most of the time anyway. if they fold you still win the hand. no need to give free cards with trips. so VALUE BET.

I have completely given up on slow playing anything. If they are going to suck out on you, make them pay. Don't allow it to be cheap....sets, two pair, etc

I hate generalizing, but I'm going to do it right now. Lots of player slowplay way too often. Especially in lower buy-in tournaments, and micro cash games, where there's really no need.

At these smaller stakes, players are for the most part playing level 1 poker. If they have a hand they're coming along for the ride, if not then they're ditching. Checking to slowplay in a lot of these situations is not a good EV move since you could likely extract three streets of value had you bet it out.

If I am the preflop raiser, then I'm leading out at most flops whether or not I hit it. This is partly to take down pots that players do not wish to contest, but also to mask the times I connect solidly with the flop, allowing me to get calls I otherwise would not. Therefore, if you were the preflop raiser, I say you absolutely must lead at these flops. When you flop trips and fire out, a lot of players are not going to give you credit here if they're thinking players, reasoning it was quite difficult to connect with this board. If they are not thinking players, we're back to my original statement, and you should be firing to extract value from any hand they deem is worth a call.

A slowplay could be effective in a few situations however. For example, had your opponnent opened preflop, you flat-call, and are oop (Terrible set of circumstances by the way). Now you flop trips. If leading out is likely to ellicit a fold from the preflop raiser, then checking and letting him take the lead is best. Also if he is very aggressive himself, then check/calling two streets and value betting the river is not a bad line. If he's extremely aggressive though, then betting out may again be best as he may see this as you trying to pry him off his hand, causing him to respond with a raise that may tie him to the pot. This is a very exact set of circumstances that it takes for the slowplay to be better than betting, so please keep this in mind.

About the only time that it's correct to slowplay is when you just crushed the deck. You have AQ and the flop comes AAQ, AQQ, QQQ, AAA. In these scenarios you have all the cards worth having. You have to slowplay in the hopes of letting another player catch up to a second best hand that he feels is worth putting a little more money in the pot with. Again, these are very specific flops, and are the exception, not the rule.

I am a average player tryoing to get better by reading as much about the game as I can. I am now reading a book by Doyle Brunson called "Super System A Course In Power Poker", this is what he says about the matter. "I alway try to make it a habit to .... raise whenever I turn a big hand most player will slow-play their hand .... hoping to get a check raise. When the do that, they're playing it wrong.. as you'll see.

I am told you can learn so much by listening to the pro's

funnymann1996 said:

Hi!

Seems quite frequently I get burned with two pair. Some how someone always has the better hand then me. Any suggestions on how two play them better?

Thanks
funnymann1996:joyman:

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Use the "search" function, and I'm sure you'd find plenty of advice about playing 2pr.

Well said Mase31683 - I tend to think the same way you do. In the lower stakes that a lot of us seem to play at, slow playing sets is more the expectation than betting out. I've gotten burned quite a bit trying to slow play sets (e.g., middle or bottom set overthrown by higher set on turn/river, flushed out, etc) so now I tend to lead out with a bet than slowplay.

I'd also tend to think that betting out changes the dynamics too. Let's say you bet out with a set. Even if your opponent calls your bet on a draw, the circumstances change because your opponent now has to at least give you some credit for a hand, but your hand might be masked well (e.g., you have a pocket 7s and a 7 hit the flop). On the turn, if your opponent is still on a draw and you bet out aggressively (3/4 to a pot sized bet), you're making it prohibitively expensive for him to call with a draw and see the river; you might take down the pot right there. In the case of slow playing, you allow your opponents to catch up, which can backfire and cost you a bundle.

slow playing sets is only safe when you have a rainbow flop and no probable straight right after the flop. if you do fall into these categories do not slow play. bet high. do not let your opponets be able to see the next card for cheap. they most likely have a weak draw

tdude said:

.... bet high. do not let your opponets be able to see the next card for cheap....

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I think that this is the best option. When you do hit a set, you want to make sure that any flush possibility or straight draw will really need to think before calling you. I've slow played to many hands to see a third heart or a connector come up and for me to lose the hand... sometimes, its best if those 5% chance to winners stay out late in the hand.

doyle does say that you have to raise when you hit a set to get money in the pot if they call and so that people wont call with weak draws and suck out on you

Do not slow play the sets or trips. You have to hammer them in !!!!!!!!!

It all depends on what you feel, but you have to jack them up. They won't bet themselves in.

I Had them today ( trip 4's on UB ).........ohhhhh I beat out AA by the way ( true story ).

chefjimmy said:

..both times i had hit the sets with 1 whole card...ie i wasnt holding pockets.

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Theres nothing wrong with slowplaying a set, which you did not have, you had trips, and a set is much easier to hide than trips. Trips are nice, but your kicker can have a huge effect.

You may want to step up your aggression a little and see how it works for you. I play a pretty aggressive game so if I was to slow play it would set off alarms, but I think that is an advantage to being aggressive. Your opponent always thinks your just making a move with and when you do have a set or another big hand you get paid off well with it.

Depends on the flop but I only slowplay on uncoordinated board. If I'm playing with 3-4 different people who are in the round, and flop came out 4,5 9 rainbow and I have pocket 4s. If I'm early position, I look for check/raise. If I'm middle, I bet and raise. If I'm late position and raise is big. THen I slowplay. Slowplaying varies depending on flop, position. But of course, this is just my opinion.

If the board does not look dangerous or coordinated for a straight or flush then I slowplay. I want to get my opponent to bet into me, or try to bluff me. A set is a very strong and disguised hand, it is hard for your opponent to put you on a set, but if you come out firing on the flop you usually won't win much.

I do slow play sets often and most of the time win alot with them but when there's a flush draw or straight draw on the board i play aggressive but i don't think i ever laydown a set.

Do not slow play when there is a straight draw forming or made on the board.

Here are Skansky's criteria of slowplaying (from Hold'em Poker for Advanced Players):

1. our hand is very strong
2. you will probably chase everyone out by betting
3. the free card has good possibility to help make a second best hand
4. free card has little chance of outdrawing you
5. the pot is not that large

You need to have ALL of the above (not just one/a few) for the situation to dictate a slowplay.

Further notes:
1. If you want your continuation bets to garner respect, you have to bet when you hit, not just when you miss.
2. Any flush draw will put $ in while there is a chance to draw out, but will NOT put any money in on the river if they missed. i.e., if you wait to bet until your are sure you have the best hand (flush missed), then you will not get any money.
3. As noted by other posters, the second criteria is probably the most relevant: if they are not folding anyway (draws, overcards, etc.), then there is no reason to slowplay at all.

I like to slow play, but there are many different situations you should consider. Too many to mention. I like to always play each hand different to keep my opponents wondering?

i like slowplaying trips. odds are you're good. visualise filling up on the river and it makes it a bit easier.

no flush or straight draws and you are good to slow play, if not you have to bet atleast 1/2-full size of pot depending on how many, what type of people are in hand, postition etc. You can win or lose a lot with this hand, don't take it for granted.

thanks for the many responses

srry been away for awhile and just getting back,and just wanted to thank everyone for their contribution to my post...i will look at all the advice given again thank you

The best poker advice ever: BET YOUR SET.

Giving free cards is just asking for trouble (and a major suckout). As AG wrote, certain conditions have to be met in order for a slowplay to be the best move. Too often you open the door and get creamed.