Should we run it twice?

Aces2w1n

Aces2w1n

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Just wondering if this is best option? I know I've heard it does improve varience? but does it really? or does it hurt win rate because ur too scared to lose?

Anyway give me your experience with run it twice please and i'll love to read :)
 
Lheticus

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Um...what even IS "running it twice"?
 
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underdog140

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Um...what even IS "running it twice"?

You get to see what ever community cards twice, that have not yet been dealt.


Ex.

Flop comes 3 4 5 ... you and another player end up all in and decide to run it twice. The turn and river card will be dealt like normal and who ever has the best hand will win the first half of the pot.

Then the turn and river card are removed and a new turn and river cards are dealt. Who ever has the best hand wins the second half of the pot.

Once a player is all in this can be done with all five cards or just the river.
 
Lheticus

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You get to see what ever community cards twice, that have not yet been dealt.


Ex.

Flop comes 3 4 5 ... you and another player end up all in and decide to run it twice. The turn and river card will be dealt like normal and who ever has the best hand will win the first half of the pot.

Then the turn and river card are removed and a new turn and river cards are dealt. Who ever has the best hand wins the second half of the pot.

Once a player is all in this can be done with all five cards or just the river.

Wwwwow. I have had this be a thing literally nowhere I've ever played. Guess I'm in the wrong thread.
 
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underdog140

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Wwwwow. I have had this be a thing literally nowhere I've ever played. Guess I'm in the wrong thread.

It is done in cash games ... poker stars has the option to run it twice somewhere in the lobby. Both players have to have it enabled or its just the one time.
 
Panamajoe

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It is done in cash games ... Poker Stars has the option to run it twice somewhere in the lobby. Both players have to have it enabled or its just the one time.

Yeah, I'd seen it as an option at PS but never turned it on because I had no idea what it was... still not really sure :)
 
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underdog140

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Yeah, I'd seen it as an option at PS but never turned it on because I had no idea what it was... still not really sure :)

Here is a short 36 second video that shows what I was explaining in my above post. In the video below they are playing cash omaha. In this example two players were all in on the turn with only the river card left. As you will see, two river cards get dealt. The player in the small blind loses both times. So wins nothing. Both half pots are pushed to the winner.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vs4xeMxaMY

If you clicked the option to run it twice on poker stars and you are at a cash table with someone else that has the option enabled and are all in vs. each other. The site will auto deal it twice for you. If the other person doesn't have it enabled than its only once.
 
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Dick_Huff

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I'm against the idea of running it twice. I feel it takes away the aspect of skill based poker as the second time through you're literally just playing solitaire.
 
PokerSprout

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Just wondering if this is best option? I know I've heard it does improve varience? but does it really? or does it hurt win rate because ur too scared to lose?

Anyway give me your experience with run it twice please and i'll love to read :)

There's a point at which your bankroll welcomes or shuns variance compared to your skill level in a game you play. For example, I can do well in $1000NL online games and have a bankroll that can withstand the variance of that game, so no need to run it twice. Sometimes, there are also unsustainable game options, games that don't always run.

Once I jump to a $5000NL game that I think I have an edge in, that edge is almost always going to be smaller (and almost always higher variance) and I also have to consider the very real opportunity costs of that variance, i.e. If I lose a flip in a $5000NL game, I might have to spend thousands of hands at $1000NL just to break even because that good $5000NL game isn't always there.

So there's a skill versus bankroll requirement threshold whereat the variance effect of running it twice is significant. If you are comfortable with your bankroll fluctuations and you're handily beating a limit, running it twice is going to hamper your ability to maximize your growth rate because you actually want to embrace variance at that point. It sounds odd, but simply put, consider if you're playing 25NL and you know you can beat 200NL well enough, you want to get to 100NL as quickly as possible, and that means welcoming higher variance.

On the other hand, if you have 20 buy ins for a game you beat for 2.5bb, then you probably want to run it twice and lower the variance of the game, especially if you take money from your bankroll for rent, food, and the like.
 
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Weissr

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Nice input there PokerSprout, I like the breakdown.

My understanding of running it twice was to just reduce your variance. Your winning spikes will be reduced a bit, but so will your losing spikes. Seem to be just a more conservative way of doing things. I guess it will appeal to people that are more risk averse.
 
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Retina

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Run it twice or a different delivery for two runs. It is only in the event that all of the remaining opponents went all-in and all the players have agreed to two runs. The passage will be only from the street in which the players went all-in. Run it twice is best used when you are confident in your hand only half and when you pulled into the bank and you can not throw your hand.
 
Aces2w1n

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There's a point at which your bankroll welcomes or shuns variance compared to your skill level in a game you play. For example, I can do well in $1000NL online games and have a bankroll that can withstand the variance of that game, so no need to run it twice. Sometimes, there are also unsustainable game options, games that don't always run.

Once I jump to a $5000NL game that I think I have an edge in, that edge is almost always going to be smaller (and almost always higher variance) and I also have to consider the very real opportunity costs of that variance, i.e. If I lose a flip in a $5000NL game, I might have to spend thousands of hands at $1000NL just to break even because that good $5000NL game isn't always there.

So there's a skill versus bankroll requirement threshold whereat the variance effect of running it twice is significant. If you are comfortable with your bankroll fluctuations and you're handily beating a limit, running it twice is going to hamper your ability to maximize your growth rate because you actually want to embrace variance at that point. It sounds odd, but simply put, consider if you're playing 25NL and you know you can beat 200NL well enough, you want to get to 100NL as quickly as possible, and that means welcoming higher variance.

On the other hand, if you have 20 buy ins for a game you beat for 2.5bb, then you probably want to run it twice and lower the variance of the game, especially if you take money from your bankroll for rent, food, and the like.


Thanks for your answer sir. I guess if i'm going aggressive bankroll management i'll decline run it twice. But when i'm satisfied at the level i'll flick it on :)
 
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