Should I move up in stakes ?

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Papier24

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Hey guys,
I'm playing 2NLHE 6max Cash Games on pokerstars for quite a few months now. When I started playing online poker I lost too much money due to bad bankroll managment and also because I was a big fish. So I decided to deposit another 30$ into my pokerstars account and I started to play better poker. Now I'm really careful before moving up in stakes.

I'm currently playing on 4-5 tables at the same time and I could get to almost 200$ now. My question is when should I really consider moving up to 5NLHE ? On the on side 2NLHE is getting kinda boring but on the other side I'm feeling really comfortable there.

I have just started using a HUD a few weeks ago, here are some stats :
hands played : 15k
bb/100 hands : 15.98

The last 10k hands I played I even won 20 bb every 100 hands. So I really don't know if my winrate is good enough to move up in stakes. Are 15k hands even enough to judge my winrate ? Are there even any actual quality differences between 2NL and 5NL ?
 
bmw13

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i think you should play one table at 0.5 and than when you are starting to be more confortable than you add tables.
 
Alucard

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I think it's fine but what's important is that you are rolled properly to play 5NL.

However at pokerstars 5NL is way tougher than 2NL. Really good players there. I've moved on to the zoom pool just because it's way hard to to find a couple of fish in a table. And when one appears, all the regs try to move on to that table.
So you might want to evolve a bit or try moving to another side.

But I think since you have a decent win rate & confident it's time to move up and take a shot.
 
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Dan Lucas

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Use your bankroll to determine your stakes. If you reach $110.00 plus, you can probably afford to give 5nl a chance. If you drop below $100., go back to 2nl. If you consistently make progress and can get up to $200., you can start thinking about 10nl. the problem most people make is to lose at higher limits and try to get it back instead of going back to manageable levels.
 
Stuey

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You are not winning enough. What you have there 16bb/100 is not enough.
You actually are playing a video game for fun
 
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AlexTheOwl

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16 bb/100 is very good.
Your sample size is on the small side, but big enough to say that you are probably a long-term winning player at your current stake. You also know that you were profitable before you started tracking.
It sounds like you have a big enough roll.
You have mastered your buy-in level well enough to be profitable when multi-tabling.
Go for it.
 
mtl mile end

mtl mile end

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I don't have a lot of experience with micro cash, but the $2 Zoom tables (9 Max) on PS are super soft (my $7 loss last night notwithstanding). Try out Zoom (maybe multi-tabling if that's your thing) before TRYING $5. You can get a taste in order to feel comfortable (most important factor) before moving up.
 
Stuey

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16 bb/100 is very good.
Your sample size is on the small side, but big enough to say that you are probably a long-term winning player at your current stake. You also know that you were profitable before you started tracking.
It sounds like you have a big enough roll.
You have mastered your buy-in level well enough to be profitable when multi-tabling.
Go for it.


ha ha ha lol,,,lol ...
what? - mastered? - who's the master?

Hmm......, 16bb/100 on 4-5 tables is a very anemic score.
You make 3bb/100 per each table. That is a waste of time on video games for kids.
 
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AlexTheOwl

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ha ha ha lol,,,lol ...
what? - mastered? - who's the master?

Hmm......, 16bb/100 on 4-5 tables is a very anemic score.
You make 3bb/100 per each table. That is a waste of time on video games for kids.

16bb/100 on 4-5 tables is an average of 16bb/100 on each table. It's a rate, not a sum. Your tone is derisive, as it often is, but you continue to expose your ignorance.

Now please tell us that only you know about the secret places where the money is hidden in hold'em. You are our little clown, and we enjoy your show.
 
Ahoy

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I think 16BB/100 is very good. I hope I can achieve this long term too. Great for you my friend. Lets keep the grind real ;)
 
Alucard

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Hmm......, 16bb/100 on 4-5 tables is a very anemic score.
You make 3bb/100 per each table.

Who taught you math? Cause you seem not to know where the math is in holdem :p
 
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Papier24

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I have tried playing 2 tables 5NLHE at the same time. I have a pretty good feeling about it because it seems there are as many fishes as at 2NL.
My bankroll is now at 230$. So I have 46 buy ins what should be enough.

Btw, my winrate is way higher at 2NL when you just look at the last few weeks. I personally think 16bb/100 hands is decent but I agree that at 2NL you can get a even better winrate.
 
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braveslice

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Yeah just give it a go. It's not that you would never lose in poker, you can't save your money on your journey upwards, just think that you have the skill and chips to try it. One of the hardest skills is managing levels, and you only learn by practicing it, with theory background of course.

Some tips:
a) Try to play the same, this is very hard though, so remember to use hand histories to verify you actually do. Most likely pitfalls: overvaluing the skill of the villains, over thinking, over calling because 'these guys bluff on the river so much more'.
b) Don’t stay too long on the level if you are break even or losing. The confident is very valuable asset in poker in practice. Build it up if you lose it, and if step down, be extra careful not to overplay because you are the master.
c) Don’t get exited, if you do, take measures against it (breaks, stop, jumping levels etc..). Try to play session only so long that you play A game with logical mind, that might mean 5 min or 4 hours, depends. And repeat....
d)Have stop loss just in case your mind is not clear enough.

Edit:
I have tried playing 2 tables 5NLHE at the same time. I have a pretty good feeling about it because it seems there are as many fishes as at 2NL.

Good job. It seems I was late from the party.
 
Last edited:
Douglas Gonzaga

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Try to raise your bankroll to 5nl.
 
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microse

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16bb/100 on 4-5 tables is an average of 16bb/100 on each table. It's a rate, not a sum. Your tone is derisive, as it often is, but you continue to expose your ignorance.



Now please tell us that only you know about the secret places where the money is hidden in hold'em. You are our little clown, and we enjoy your show.



Lol. I read his post and was so confused. I love your response. 16BB/100 is indeed good and I agree that that OP could stand to move up with their current bankroll and give 5NL a try starting with one table and adding more as they begin performing well.
 
Stuey

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16bb/100 on 4-5 tables is an average of 16bb/100 on each table. It's a rate, not a sum. Your tone is derisive, as it often is, but you continue to expose your ignorance.

Now please tell us that only you know about the secret places where the money is hidden in hold'em. You are our little clown, and we enjoy your show.

Well, good luck on making 16bb/100 per 4-5 table or 3bb/100/table or even more like you would be playing live and make 1bb/33 hands that is 1bb per hour. Playing multiple table is like playing multiple video games. You or anyone else cannot call himself a pro poker player who's making 1bb/hour. .........., You pay more in RAKE than you make. ..., ha ha ha...LOL ..
 
masik6

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To go above the limits or not depends on your bankroll at any limit you need to feel comfortable and that you have no fear of losing your bankroll.
 
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CHRIS025

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if you really believe in yourself.

Then most definitely move it up ..... slowly leave your stakes .... dont rush into it all though.
 
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agriggy

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Once you are comfortable playing an winning at one level you can move up. Just fon't play as many tabled at fist, add a table as your success grows. 1 to 2, 2 to 3 etc., you will have less margin for error at the higher tables.
 
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AlexTheOwl

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Well, good luck on making 16bb/100 per 4-5 table or 3bb/100/table or even more like you would be playing live and make 1bb/33 hands that is 1bb per hour. Playing multiple table is like playing multiple video games. You or anyone else cannot call himself a pro poker player who's making 1bb/hour. .........., You pay more in RAKE than you make. ..., ha ha ha...LOL ..

What does "3bb/100/table" mean?

Who claimed to be a pro poker player?

Who said anything about making 1bb/ hour?
Only you, so I assume you are laughing at yourself. Everyone else is laughing at you also, so welcome to the party!
 
RidersFan

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Well, good luck on making 16bb/100 per 4-5 table or 3bb/100/table or even more like you would be playing live and make 1bb/33 hands that is 1bb per hour. Playing multiple table is like playing multiple video games. You or anyone else cannot call himself a pro poker player who's making 1bb/hour. .........., You pay more in RAKE than you make. ..., ha ha ha...LOL ..

Wow just wow. It’s like you don’t even read and instead continue to spew ignorance. It’s very simple so I’ll break it down for you. 16bb/100hds is an average and not a sum, it has nothing to do with how many tables he plays. Example let’s say he plays 100 hands on 5 tables at the same time(total 500 hands played) and in those hands wins 80bbs. That would be a win rate of 16bbs/100hds. Hope this helps with your misunderstanding.
 
Stuey

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Wow just wow. It’s like you don’t even read and instead continue to spew ignorance. It’s very simple so I’ll break it down for you. 16bb/100hds is an average and not a sum, it has nothing to do with how many tables he plays. Example let’s say he plays 100 hands on 5 tables at the same time(total 500 hands played) and in those hands wins 80bbs. That would be a win rate of 16bbs/100hds. Hope this helps with your misunderstanding.

Well, ....., you too
Yes I understand what 16bb/100 hands means. It means 5bb/33 hands or 5bb/hour in a real pro live Hold'em cash game. How many bb you think a good live Hold'em player makes in 500 hands or in 16 hours?

If you think he's making only 80bb in two days of full time play you are mistaken and be in for a surprise. No good respected player can survive on 40bb per day or 5bb/hour at 30-33 hands/hour. The minimum standard of a good very aggressive TAG is about 12bb/hour and that is about 90-100bb per full 8 hours a day. Like $200 or $500 per day, respectively 1-2 or 2-5 games. That's the average. If you don't make this score you can't overcome the variance or standard deviation that will eventually catch up with you and destroy your bankroll at some point.

Anyway, I'm talking about real Hold'em players in real card games, not about kids video game played from the basement of mom's house where he lives rent free scraping couple dollars to play his little $0.05/$0.10 ha, ha, haha .. fuhgettaboutit ..., man ...haha
 
RidersFan

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Well, ....., you too
Yes I understand what 16bb/100 hands means. It means 5bb/33 hands or 5bb/hour in a real pro live Hold'em cash game. How many bb you think a good live Hold'em player makes in 500 hands or in 16 hours?

If you think he's making only 80bb in two days of full time play you are mistaken and be in for a surprise. No good respected player can survive on 40bb per day or 5bb/hour at 30-33 hands/hour. The minimum standard of a good very aggressive TAG is about 12bb/hour and that is about 90-100bb per full 8 hours a day. Like $200 or $500 per day, respectively 1-2 or 2-5 games. That's the average. If you don't make this score you can't overcome the variance or standard deviation that will eventually catch up with you and destroy your bankroll at some point.

Anyway, I'm talking about real Hold'em players in real card games, not about kids video game played from the basement of mom's house where he lives rent free scraping couple dollars to play his little $0.05/$0.10 ha, ha, haha .. fuhgettaboutit ..., man ...haha

Why are you trying to equate online and live? Who said he’s winning 80bbs in 2 days? Playing 5 tables it would take between 1.5 - 2hrs to play 500 hands.
Why the hatred for online poker? Maybe because you can’t do it?
Before you go off on another tangent(this is where you would go and you know it) about how I couldn’t play live and I sit in a basement and play video games. I do play live, I play 1/2 and 2/5 Holdem and 2/5 PLO.
 
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braveslice

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12bb/hour would mean about winrate of 1.2bb/100 for online reg.
 
keokeokk

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Hey guys,
I'm playing 2NLHE 6max Cash Games on pokerstars for quite a few months now. When I started playing online poker I lost too much money due to bad bankroll managment and also because I was a big fish. So I decided to deposit another 30$ into my pokerstars account and I started to play better poker. Now I'm really careful before moving up in stakes.

I'm currently playing on 4-5 tables at the same time and I could get to almost 200$ now. My question is when should I really consider moving up to 5NLHE ? On the on side 2NLHE is getting kinda boring but on the other side I'm feeling really comfortable there.

I have just started using a HUD a few weeks ago, here are some stats :
hands played : 15k
bb/100 hands : 15.98

The last 10k hands I played I even won 20 bb every 100 hands. So I really don't know if my winrate is good enough to move up in stakes. Are 15k hands even enough to judge my winrate ? Are there even any actual quality differences between 2NL and 5NL ?
your victory rate is convincing ... I believe you can go further ^^ .. of course keep managing your bankroll, I believe the only way to learn is to play, try a few matches see the result for example a 10 matches well played to see your performance, and from there you can have your conclusions ^^
 
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