Should I be taking shot at 5NL?

G

Grinder888

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Hi All.

I have been playing online poker since mid Jan this year and have just recently started to make some sense out of it. Below I will try to summarize my journey so far so you can better advice me on whether I should be taking shots at 5NL or not (2-3 BI rule of course). But to summarize, here are the quick facts:

Overview

1. Made deposit of 100$ (Jan) playing on ipad and lost it all within a month or so slow and steady

2. Redeposit for 50$ (March) and was losing until the last 5 days of March and onwards

3. Played semi TAG end of March and April and have made a small winning so far

4. Total hands played so far are 15.7k

5. March and April stats:

March 2NL - H:6328, W:-$20.12, bb/100:-15.9, VP:32.9, PF:13.7, AF:1.53, 3B:2.84, F3B:65.42, ST:28.53, FST:64.25

April 2NL - H:9414, W:$29.02, VP:18.19, PF:10.09, AF:1.35, 3B:3.38 ,F3B:72.41, ST:29.11, FST:71.21


Overall - March to April

2hp5bbc.jpg


March Overall

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April Overall

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The First Bankroll Crash

I started playing online poker in Jan with my first deposit of 100$ and playing on my iPad. I never really understood but I was losing every session where I started good winning 10-20 bb pots and then there would be a hand in which I would find myself stacked. This kept happening time and again, I tilted, upped the stakes to win back more and what not but my bankroll kept dipping: to 80$, to $50, $30 and I was lost. I had graduated from Zynga and was pretty confident of my game but all this was soo strange. Eventually I ended up on my last 20$ which I happily gambled away in live casinos games.

The After Thought

I never deposited 100$ to play it all, heck I never thought I would need more than 20 but still made it 100 to get that 100% bonus (knew nothing of bonus points). But now I had lost all confidence and did not want to redeposit. I posted my issue on a forum where I got different advices (many suggested to quit and never look back) but I took one that suggested I only play FRs. I did some min cashes, 4-5 days of FR grind and mustered a BI or 2 but ended up losing it all after some up and down swings. I then decided I would complete the books I was reading (Theory of Poker, Harrington on Holdem, NLHE Theory and Practice). Little did I know they didn't apply directly to 2NL. Still I really wanted to be back at the felt and I could not stand the stupidity of Zynga anymore.

The Second Deposit

I re-deposited early March but only 50$ this time and I kept it as a 25 BI for 2NL. Also instead of table I used my laptop. But things did not look to change from the last I played. I still went under BI after another but at a slower rate. I then registered for the PT4 trial but all it did was show me how badly I screwed my losing hands. I then started doing more post session analysis and even posted a few hands here and there. One common message I received was my loose playing range. I still did not understand the applicability of HUD, maybe bc I was playing 40/10 at the time. Finally I found something useful: strategy articles for the 2NL micros and the good'ol BlackRain79 posts. It was tough as hell tighten up and fold so many hands Danial Negreanu plays fabulously but I struggled and starting seeing the fold button more. I did start to see a lil glimpse of hope as I was now having some good sessions along with the bad. I started playing borderline TAG in April and the approach has been kind to me as well and I have managed to break even from all of my losses coupled with 2 bonuses & min tourney winnings and now I stand at a BR of 100$ exact.

The Decision

Now I am thinking of taking a shot at 5NL however what concerns me most is that I don't have many hands under my belt but overall my graph is really not that high. With roughly 20BI for 5NL should I be thinking of taking a 2BI shot at that limit or should I be grinding where I am until I have more hands or at least 150$ BR?

The Apology

I understand its bad ethics to post a cliché where there might be similar posts for the same already and then apologize at the end but I know we all also understand paranoia as well. Wouldn't you want one of ur members to be rather safe then sorry? Plus I also wanted to have a feedback on the stats so I could know if there are any apparent leaks.


Thank you all in advance for being patient and for your considerate advice.
 
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R

Rumme1

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This type of decision is best decided by the player { you} . No one else can know your comfort zone, or your bankroll management . If you have to question whether moving up in bet limits is wise for you situation, then most likely, it is not wise. You should probably not move to higher limits unless you have confidence in your play, your bankroll and your skills.
 
T

Trichome

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Get 25BI for NL5 and take a 5BI shot and drop down and REPEAT :)
 
TimovieMan

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Are you playing full ring or 6-max?

There's still a rather big discrepancy between your VPIP and your PFR. Lose the limping range, raise more.
You can open up your range somewhat in the CO, and you can open it a lot OTB. Compensate by folding your blinds a little more - money is won in position, not OOP.

With your results consistently improving, and with some more experience, you could make the jump to 5NL if you think you're ready.

It might be a good idea to take a 4 BI shot once your roll reaches 120$ (or a 5 BI shot once you reach 125$), dropping down to NL2 again should your roll drop to 100$.


And in the meantime, post hands, respond to hands in the Cash Hand Analysis subforum (preferably without reading the entire thread first, just the OP), and continue studying the game.


Good luck!
 
coolDadJimbo

coolDadJimbo

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i made the move from 2nl to 5nl last night...... grinded my $18 to $105 over the last 3 weeks and made the switch... i've been playing at 2nl for almost 2 years and study like a maniac....

blackrain is really good....

i'm no pro, but the vibe i get is that maybe you should stay at 2nl a little longer.... until you convince yourself that you can beat 2nl... and, then, take a few stabs at it.... that's the stage i'm at

good luck!!

may you smash the pot
 
R

Rumme1

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i made the move from 2nl to 5nl last night...... grinded my $18 to $105 over the last 3 weeks and made the switch... i've been playing at 2nl for almost 2 years and study like a maniac....

blackrain is really good....

i'm no pro, but the vibe i get is that maybe you should stay at 2nl a little longer.... until you convince yourself that you can beat 2nl... and, then, take a few stabs at it.... that's the stage i'm at

good luck!!

may you smash the pot

$18 to $105 in 3 weeks of play . Do you play 40 hrs per week or more ? If so, thats a earnings of about .80 cents per hour. Talk about a grind....but at least you are winning
 
coolDadJimbo

coolDadJimbo

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.... part of it was from a tourney win.... about $55, which i lost part of and built it up... (won a ticket in a vpp freeroll and came in 14th of 3000!)

i do play a lot when i am not working at 1 of my 2 jobs.... maybe 25hours?
 
G

Grinder888

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Thanks everyone and appreciate the sound advice. I agree, I will continue grinding current stakes and try to improve my game. Will think of taking a shot if BR moves to 125-150$ with the 4-5BI rule.

@coolDadJimbo Thanks for sharing and I agree.

@TimovieMan Sorry I did not mention earlier, I play full ring. Started with 6 max in Jan but then learned from forums that I should be playing full ring. Also appreciate the look into stats, I am working on cutting back the speculative hands or either mixing it up with my strong hands EP or light 3betting with them LP rather than calling. I am working on posting more hands where I am caught in sticky situations but after the session I get lost in the volume (*sigh)
 
R

Rumme1

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.... part of it was from a tourney win.... about $55, which i lost part of and built it up... (won a ticket in a vpp freeroll and came in 14th of 3000!)

i do play a lot when i am not working at 1 of my 2 jobs.... maybe 25hours?

I try to anaylize how many hours of poker I play per week/month, and then analyize how much profit I am making per hour. I personally would not be interested in grinding out poker to only profit minimum wage or less. This is because I truly do not love playing poker, or sitting at the table with 9 other people whom I dont have much in common with and I find boring. In other words, the profits have to be enough per hour, to make it worth my while to sit at a poker game and take me away from my other hobbies I like much more..like gardening, weightlifting, music/ songwriting, etc.
 
J

Jreece18

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888Poker? You can probably still beat 5nl, but imo you still have a lot you need to fix before moving up. Gap between VPIP and PFR is too much, you need to 3bet more and get your AF up by betting more. You're probably playing the right number of hands due to the VPIP being 18, but I think you need to be more aggressive (doesn't mean play loose).

Imo, play another 10k hands trying to play more aggressively. However at 888poker, I think you could still have a positive winrate at 5nl, just depends by how much.
 
Omahahahaha

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Buy in requirements are a function of your win rate, the variance of the game and your own personal risk tolerance. Is this $100 replaceable? Do you have a job? If so, then you might be more inclined to take a shot at 2 cent 5 cent. You can always move down to 1 cent 2 cent if it doesn't go well and you lose 5 or 6 buy ins.
 
TimovieMan

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This is because I truly do not love playing poker, or sitting at the table with 9 other people whom I dont have much in common with and I find boring. In other words, the profits have to be enough per hour, to make it worth my while to sit at a poker game and take me away from my other hobbies I like much more..like gardening, weightlifting, music/ songwriting, etc.
Then why play at all? If you don't like playing poker, then I'm sure you can find other things that you like better that provide an income. Why waste your time on things you don't enjoy?

Back in my limit days, I was making more money playing 15 hours of poker per week than I did at my 40 hour per week day job. But the very second that poker stopped being fun for me, was the second that I quit and withdrew everything.
There's more to life than money.
 
G

Grinder888

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haha thanks @Jreece18 but I don't know how to take this as I might be one of the softer fishes at the site. Yea I have these written on my sticky notes as I see my variance in PT4 Leak tracker but I am moving slow at working on them bc aggressive is very opposite to how I used to play (passive) and I sometime find myself in sticky situation. I have now capped multi tabling to 3 max as well bc I feel with more tables I lose myself in the post flop play and am unable to read situations well being aggressive which leads me to tilt.

Thanks once again
 
G

Grinder888

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FYI Yesterday I got myself into sticky situations multi tabling more than I could handle coupled with aggression so am now digging into the Mental game of poker. How good is it for this the micros and just overall? Looking forward to your opinions
 
R

Rumme1

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Then why play at all? If you don't like playing poker, then I'm sure you can find other things that you like better that provide an income. Why waste your time on things you don't enjoy?

Back in my limit days, I was making more money playing 15 hours of poker per week than I did at my 40 hour per week day job. But the very second that poker stopped being fun for me, was the second that I quit and withdrew everything.
There's more to life than money.

Because even though I dont love poker....I hated working 40 hours a week, much more . I dont even want to love poker, because I feel it can be a dangerous thing to fall in love with, making it hard to quit the game, when one experiences very bad runs of luck . Also, to fall in love with poker , can cause family disturbances and ruin relationships. In my area, I can play poker 7 days a week..all no chop games. Fortunately , I do not love poker enough, to play 7 days a week, and I only play a few times per week, in the games that seem to allow me the best profits for the time I spend at a poker table . In fact, I do not envy anyone, that falls in love with the game of poker. It can be a a dangerous thing to love.
 
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Jreece18

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haha thanks @Jreece18 but I don't know how to take this as I might be one of the softer fishes at the site. Yea I have these written on my sticky notes as I see my variance in PT4 Leak tracker but I am moving slow at working on them bc aggressive is very opposite to how I used to play (passive) and I sometime find myself in sticky situation. I have now capped multi tabling to 3 max as well bc I feel with more tables I lose myself in the post flop play and am unable to read situations well being aggressive which leads me to tilt.

Thanks once again

From your stats it's likely you'd be better than a lot of the players. A couple days ago I had a 98/40 whale trying to prove that online poker is fixed. Got him all in QQ vs J7o haha - still best to play where you're comfortable at. Call less, raise more is the first thing to fix imo.
 
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