Should I be 3-betting for value?

jomaaan

jomaaan

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Jul 19, 2016
Total posts
37
Chips
0
I am playing cashgames zoom at the micro stakes and I feel like I wil never get payed off by 3-betting with AA or KK. 90% of the time i get folds. I started 3 betting with more hands like pocket pairs, suited connectors and some suited Ax hands because it feels like free money. But I stopped 3-betting my monster hands because I think I can get more money by just calling preflop and then betting after. Could i try min 3-betting forcing them to call or should i do something else?
 
Andrei Korolev

Andrei Korolev

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Sep 16, 2015
Total posts
3,014
Chips
0
In cash games to play a bet and raises,correct.In tournaments I play with AA in 99% of Allin.There are many options,each with its own method.
 
EvertonGirl

EvertonGirl

Professional Fish
Loyaler
Joined
Feb 22, 2013
Total posts
8,421
Awards
3
GB
Chips
99
In cash games I would 3bet AA all the time, you do not want too many callers and that could happen if you decide to play it weaker. Just be patient eventually you will see someone 4bet when you have AA and then you can smile and 5bet shove :)
 
B

braveslice

Pull-ups!
Silver Level
Joined
Dec 9, 2013
Total posts
1,988
Chips
0
You have correct idea, but against most players it's better just 3bet, here is refined your idea: http://www.blackrain79.com/2015/07/the-step-by-step-guide-to-dominating-in.html?m=1
 
Che

Che

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Feb 4, 2015
Total posts
77
Chips
0
I am playing cashgames zoom at the micro stakes and I feel like I wil never get payed off by 3-betting with AA or KK. 90% of the time i get folds. I started 3 betting with more hands like pocket pairs, suited connectors and some suited Ax hands because it feels like free money. But I stopped 3-betting my monster hands because I think I can get more money by just calling preflop and then betting after. Could i try min 3-betting forcing them to call or should i do something else?

You have no idea why you're raising. I suspect that's your problem. ..., Yes, do something else
 
Debi

Debi

Forum Admin
Administrator
Joined
Oct 13, 2006
Total posts
74,638
Awards
20
Chips
1,331
You have no idea why you're raising. I suspect that's your problem. ..., Yes, do something else

Instead of being a smartass try explaining your own thought process. Explain to him what else you think he should be doing.
 
AlfieAA

AlfieAA

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Mar 17, 2012
Total posts
10,689
Awards
4
Chips
0
it could depend on your position and the position of the person who makes the initial open raise.....are they raising from UTG, would they be more likely to call a 3bet if you are in the small/big blind? ...

if they open raise on the Button, will they call a 3bet from the blinds when they could be raising to steal?
 
deform fedot

deform fedot

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Jul 27, 2016
Total posts
812
Chips
0
I spent some time the experiment with pocket AA; trying to extract more chips by tight traps. The result I did not like, had to fold or a donkey to go to the last of curiosity to see what players are playing so aggressively. I agree with the generally accepted such tactics. 3bb opponent bet and if the answer, let's go all the chips. You decide whether to risk it so, but I will argue that neither card on hand will not give you a guaranteed victory. So do not tempt fate. Good luck!
 
Q

quake419

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Mar 7, 2005
Total posts
34
Chips
0
My Friend play to WIN!

Unlike others I never slow play BIG PAIR if you come in and beat me well I am just beat because donkeys and fish call everything anyways and you may have some sharks who sneak in and gobble you up. So take me from jump, if you run me down I am just ran down. the worst feeling in the world is to have to chuck that big pair away after the flop falls and some yahoo snuck into the game pre flop.
 
T

TheLegend27

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Dec 21, 2016
Total posts
40
Chips
0
The 3 bet is a very situational tool. You need your range to be diverse otherwise nobody is going to call you. Let's say you limped in with 10 J suited from middle position, you expect a standard raise to 3x, then somebody 3 bets that again from SB. Are you ever going to call that raise?

Now let's say it's a light 3 bet, you MIGHT call it. Let's say BB is 2$, standard PFR from middle position to 6 and then somebody light 3 bets to 12. Isn't that so much more palpable than a 18$ raise? Yet, it still has the same exact purpose in isolating and keeping out the weaker hands so you have an expectation of your opponent's range on the flop.

I would also experiment with doing light 3 bets in position and maybe even mixing in a few from early with your strong suited connectors so your range remains polarized.

Ultimately, people want to feel that they have a good chance to win and if they know you're only 3betting with your monsters, who's ever going to call?

Experiment also with limping in your monsters vs aggro opponents or people who you know ALWAYS raise on the button or cut off.
 
AlfieAA

AlfieAA

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Mar 17, 2012
Total posts
10,689
Awards
4
Chips
0
The 3 bet is a very situational tool. You need your range to be diverse otherwise nobody is going to call you. Let's say you limped in with 10 J suited from middle position, you expect a standard raise to 3x, then somebody 3 bets that again from SB. Are you ever going to call that raise?

Now let's say it's a light 3 bet, you MIGHT call it. Let's say BB is 2$, standard PFR from middle position to 6 and then somebody light 3 bets to 12. Isn't that so much more palpable than a 18$ raise? Yet, it still has the same exact purpose in isolating and keeping out the weaker hands so you have an expectation of your opponent's range on the flop.

I would also experiment with doing light 3 bets in position and maybe even mixing in a few from early with your strong suited connectors so your range remains polarized.

Ultimately, people want to feel that they have a good chance to win and if they know you're only 3betting with your monsters, who's ever going to call?

Experiment also with limping in your monsters vs aggro opponents or people who you know ALWAYS raise on the button or cut off.

do you even need to balance your play at the micros though? ...and on top of that, are enough players using HUDS in these zoom micros?
 
T

TheLegend27

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Dec 21, 2016
Total posts
40
Chips
0
I missed the micros part. But there is still a degree of strategy and thought behind even the micro stakes.

I don't use a HUD although I should but I have little notes on players as aggro/donk/fish/calling station/etc. Enough information I guess haha
 
AlfieAA

AlfieAA

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Mar 17, 2012
Total posts
10,689
Awards
4
Chips
0
I missed the micros part. But there is still a degree of strategy and thought behind even the micro stakes.

I don't use a HUD although I should but I have little notes on players as aggro/donk/fish/calling station/etc. Enough information I guess haha

oh yeah, definitely...needs to be some sort of strategy and thought behind the play....but i dont think we need to worry about balancing our play...

you can use a HUD called 'jivaro'...you can get a basic free ones that gives you stats like vpip/pfr...works only for pokerstars...

i myself mix it up with HUDS...sometimes i'll use them and sometimes i'll practice withoiut it and take notes, like you say...i think its a good skill to develop, playing withoiut a hud...but it can help too
 
crimsonblur

crimsonblur

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
Mar 9, 2017
Total posts
297
Chips
0
Yes you definitely should be 3-betting for value. At my local casino I once held aces and there were like five callers before me on a bet of 35 dollars.
I raised it up to 100 dollars and only one caller remained, I assume he had a hand like QQ, KK, AK, AQ because he folded to my bet after the flop.
 
Che

Che

Enthusiast
Silver Level
Joined
Feb 4, 2015
Total posts
77
Chips
0
Instead of being a WTF donkey ass try explaining your own idiotic thought process. Explain to him what else your little dysfunctional brain thinks he should be doing.

OK, Thank you Mama,
You almost never want to get involved in a big pot before the flop. You want to play carefully preflop because with any hand other than A-A or K-K, you could potentially be a big underdog, or you might have only a small edge over your opponent’s hand like vs. AA, KK, QQ, AK, AQ, and even KQ; Your JJ are designed to see a flop before chips are moving in.
 
TheNutz4You

TheNutz4You

Legend
Loyaler
Joined
Mar 2, 2017
Total posts
3,740
Awards
4
US
Chips
105
I would recommend 3bet, otherwise you might go 3-4ways to a flop and give someone with a marginal hand that would of folded to a 3bet and chance to flop 2pair or a str8/flush draw and runout on you.
 
TheNutz4You

TheNutz4You

Legend
Loyaler
Joined
Mar 2, 2017
Total posts
3,740
Awards
4
US
Chips
105
And it also builds the pot preflop for the times they flop top pair and you are holding an overpair and they may barrel off into you or call you down 3 streets with the worse hand. just a good idea to 3bet with AA
 
Poker Orifice

Poker Orifice

Fully Tilted
Platinum Level
Joined
Jan 19, 2008
Total posts
25,596
Awards
6
CA
Chips
968
I missed the micros part. But there is still a degree of strategy and thought behind even the micro stakes.

I don't use a HUD although I should but I have little notes on players as aggro/donk/fish/calling station/etc. Enough information I guess haha

You also seem to have missed the important information that it is ZOOM tables here (much different scenario than regular cash game tables).

ALso not sure about your use of some terminology here... seemed to have a mixed meaning for 'light 3bet'.


As far as what do I think for OP... 'it depends'. If you have history on them.. perhaps.
In ZOOM, FastForward, SPEED tables you'll very often see regs. (even in micros) 3-betting very wide from the blinds over LP steals (because there's also a ton of LP steals... and because many are folding to 3bets... & rarely are they 4betting light).

I might flat vs. some regs who are opening from LP... but only if I haven't already been 3betting them often. .. if I have, I'll continue to do so with AA/KK. (basically I'll continue to do so... cuz I'm 3 & 4-betting frequently on those tables)
 
C

chronical

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Mar 15, 2014
Total posts
1,128
Awards
1
Chips
1
actualy Che is right.
You might not know why you are raising.
If you have AA/KK... something like that PRF most likely you are 3beting it PRF. Now your op has to think how strong is his hand if it's a weak Ax or garbage dro - he folds no post flop action.
If he calls > you Cbet most likely. Your op has to think (If he raise PRF and now bets strong my top pair med kicker could be/is bad-I fold).

after all if we are talking red line winings it does not matter waht you are holding, it's what you are representing to be holding. And unless you know you op to be uber-agro or the bord is wierdly dro heavy check-raises or 3bets in a 3+waypot represent a monster.
Think about like this: if you would be on the other side of the table how often would you call a 3bet with something that is not a top pair with with a GOOD kiker or better.
againt we are not taking into concidiration your ops tendencies + exploits he or you might havу on each other.
+ on micros fold to 3bet PRF will be higher/lower than normal almost always.
 
B

braveslice

Pull-ups!
Silver Level
Joined
Dec 9, 2013
Total posts
1,988
Chips
0
Well to be preciser against limp one can not 3bet, only 2bet.
 
AjsmenX

AjsmenX

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
May 21, 2016
Total posts
215
Chips
0
In zoom games you just have to play ur AA undercovered for example from UTG it can be tricky..You can be called and crashed..But my suggestion is to make always big bet from UTG like 5x or 6x bb..if u get called opponent probably has 88,99,TT,JJ,AK,AQ,QQ,KK and on this way you will avoid to run into some stupid fish hands and you can fight postflop with less hand ranges
 
Q

QA77

Visionary
Bronze Level
Joined
Jan 30, 2017
Total posts
504
Awards
1
Chips
3
You can play so many different ways but don't play exploitable. Stick to a strategy and change it up if it doesn't work with a lot of sample size. I like mixing the 3bet for value against different players.
 
B

bstest

Visionary
Silver Level
Joined
Oct 27, 2015
Total posts
522
Chips
0
The fact that players fold to your 3x bets could be an indication of their realization that you have rarely entered pots. The message is you would only enter with a monster. Limping is dangerous, its a bad feeling when you lose to the BB's 3, 4 off. The solution for me is to play more aggressively, more frequently to conceal value and as an added benefit steal some unwarrented hands.
 
starting_at_the_bottom

starting_at_the_bottom

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Dec 9, 2012
Total posts
2,665
Awards
1
Chips
7
just because you get folds doesnt mean you played it wrong.

Consider better table selection, you want to be sitting with fish rather than nits.

If you are not looking in the lobby every 15 minutes for better tables, you are doing it wrong.
 
Related Betting Guides: CA Betting - AU Betting - UK Betting - SportsBetting Poker - BetStars
Top