Short-stack strategy in cash games

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RunningGood

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I play at 0.25/50NL pretty frequently and one of the very frustrating things I find is that lots of players tend to buy in for $20 across many tables and play like a rock, from what I've seen of these players they tend to lose pretty frequently, is it in any way a good strategy?
 
Aces2w1n

Aces2w1n

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A lot of different strats work as long as you know the rules. Hit and runners i'd like to call em :) it works well if you got a low bankroll...

You can normally bleed these guys in the blinds, and if they playing multi tables most of the time they should be somewhat predictable/robotic
 
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beerobrian

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Aces has finally put a name to type of player I can't stand. Running, I don't know how anyone makes a profit from starting short stack and always waiting for the nuts. This becomes especially true for 6 max tables. What you decsribed is a terrible strategy, but you can use that predictability to your advantage.
 
benevg

benevg

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it used to be much better as a strategy before, when they allowed people to buy-in for 20bb instead of 40 minimum. even then, most of the people who employed that strategy had no idea what they should be doing; now it is even harder, so they are either easily exploitable, or spewtards. just do not play their game - if they are nits, simply fold whenever they finally wake up with a hand and 3-bet you. until then, steal their blinds relentlessly. :)
 
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RunningGood

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Yeah, I have no problem exploiting them or even entertaining them if they wake up with a hand it's just pretty annoying when I actually have a hand and it's one of those bozos who pay me off with their measley $20 instead of a normal 100bb buy-in player :(
 
benevg

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let me get this straight: you are complaining because free money does not come in bigger packages? :) well, tough luck. move higher, then even the shortstacks will have more actual money ;)
 
AugustWest

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I don't get playing short at all. You get a big hand and you don't
get payed off! You know the SS dude is getting it in only with
premiums, so should be much easier to play against...
 
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jcdagenius

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this is not a strategy to me it is a tell. any good player knows he/she needs to be deep in cash or at least over min. buy in.. these people are gibing off huge tells by sitting with just 20 and be aware of short stack sharks who often do this to trap you. I love people who min. buy in because their decisions are so critical I can apply pressure everyhand and have so much fold equity.
 
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jackaoliver

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Played cash game at the casino the other day, went there wanting to play 0.25/0.50 but the only game running was 0.50/1 , bought in for 30 whereas everyone else bought in for 120, i was short stack but after waiting for a reasonable hand you can easily double up and by not risking a larg e percentage of your bankroll. However you can gain maximum value when you buy in for more than the minimum.
 
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jcdagenius

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casino has micro stakes now?? wow didn't know that.....I can only play 1/2 live
 
AugustWest

AugustWest

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Must be a Euro casino....
 
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jasonv12

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Short stacked cash games have way more variance and a much smaller edge than other games. Mostly, just play your position and steal blinds, especially from you button. One blind steal per round is breaking even, so if you can maintain that until you get a big hand, you're probably doing pretty well.
 
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xCipx

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that is true. but sometimes in lower stake ring games, people call your raises no matter what.and all they need to see on the flop is a flush draw and ur just leading to ur demise. some people call ne thing with a chance. usually higher blinds= smarter people=better chances for u to make ur good hands
 
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jcdagenius

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anyone know about usa casinos having micros??? I would like to know
 
MediaBLITZ

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Once upon a time this was a strategy that could work for TAG players with premium hands to stack off vs LP. It was a trapping style. But these days the LP hardly exists anymore (after all it is the worst and non-profitable style there is), and players overall are much, much smarter. As someone said, it is pretty much no more than a huge tell nowadays with most everyone at the table knowing what you're up to.

The days for short stacking has pretty much come and gone because it can only flourish vs absolute fish who view the game as pure gambling and exercise no skill.
 
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RiverOfDreamz

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The short stackers don't have the pot odds for things like suited connector and other speculative hands, so when they come in on a hand (if they have any idea of pot odds), then they're pretty much going to have a premium pocket pair or AK. Most short stack strategies quickly head to their one move "all-in". Taking a look at their VPIP/PFR you can easily tell what their range is, then play range against range.

I like short stackers. Many of them found some article on the internet that really applied to 10BB buy-in. They're trying to play it with 20BB, not knowing the difference. It's a gimmick that the majority of them can't play effectively.

Back when sites had 10BB buy-ins there were some people who could play this strategy effectively, but I think nowadays most short stackers are people trying to play a gimmick instead of taking the time to actually learn and improve on their poker game.
 
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jackaoliver

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casino has micro stakes now?? wow didn't know that.....I can only play 1/2 live

Yea however this is in the UK, so therefore our 0.50/1 is pretty much your 1/2, I doubt the US do anything lower than that.
 
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jackaoliver

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Would you not count 1/2 US dollars micro?
 
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Henreiman

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Good shortstackers are certainly frustrating to play against, but they are very predictable in their shove spots. You honestly just have to be willing to gamble/flip a bit more. You might fold 9s to a full stack shove, but against short stackers you probably have 60%+ equity against their range
 
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toomuch22

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The short stackers don't have the pot odds for things like suited connector and other speculative hands, so when they come in on a hand (if they have any idea of pot odds), then they're pretty much going to have a premium pocket pair or AK. Most short stack strategies quickly head to their one move "all-in". Taking a look at their VPIP/PFR you can easily tell what their range is, then play range against range.

I like short stackers. Many of them found some article on the internet that really applied to 10BB buy-in. They're trying to play it with 20BB, not knowing the difference. It's a gimmick that the majority of them can't play effectively.

Back when sites had 10BB buy-ins there were some people who could play this strategy effectively, but I think nowadays most short stackers are people trying to play a gimmick instead of taking the time to actually learn and improve on their poker game.

I find VPIP/PFR stats really insightful because I have pretty much been only a freeroll player who has been playing playmoney for some time. Was wondering if there are further guidelines or elaboration as to how the follow-up actions should be if you're for example facing a high PFR relative to VPIP shortstack player? Or what should one do when faced with a less aggressive player?
 
LD1977

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Those are fish. Basically they mathematically sabotage themselves with high VPIP since many of those hands need big implied odds to be played even marginally profitably unless they can get away with insane amount of bluffing (good luck with that in micros).

These guys are the easiest to stack with TP hands because they get pot committed quickly, if heads up you just need to give them nice lowish prices and they will call to the end.
 
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ariolis30

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it used to work with dealt rb on stars but there is only one site that does that now and shorties are frolicking there it seems.. haha
 
BearPlay

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if they are nits, simply fold whenever they finally wake up with a hand and 3-bet you. until then, steal their blinds relentlessly. :)

Santa will not be visiting you this year :D
 
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darth007

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I have not much to add here but my experience.

I have played SS strategy where I buy in for 50bb and pray I get a hand within the first 20 hands to double up and get out. I did this strategy for awhile and went on some nasty hot streaks. But variance did catch up to me and I grew less tolerant of the variance compared to the heaters. But overall I do believe you can hit and run and build a quick BR on them. I've gone from $10 BR in micro playing all 50bb entries over 5 tables to $50 BR within 1 hour. I just never had the discipline to stop and call it a day after 1 hour. I'd always look for more and thats when I'd go down like a sack of potatos. I'm confident in my strategy. When people see you buy in low, they automatically assign you a wide range and figure they will TAG you to death. But if you buy in low and then dont play wide open and can get off the table if you dont double within 20 hands and can have discipline to get out, you can do substantially well. As you can double by abusing the Blinds quickly and getting out....Over 15 tables a day, I would double on at least 5 of them....get out of 10 of them with minimal losses. and be up for the day. Do this 3 times a week , Sunday, Thursday and Friday nights. Most important for me was buying in low and NOT having a wider range. Do the opposite of what they expect. Buy in Low and play TAG. If it works in 20 hands great. If not, get out. Long term, I think you will see that you can increase your BR quickly by sticking to your rules.
 
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