Short Stack Play

With blinds of 200/400, I was in late middle position with KQo and 3100 in chips. It was folded around to me. I raised to 1200. The question is , should I have gone all in to gain the blinds and ante's, or played for a caller and double up?

The reason I ask. I was called by the big blind. Flop was Q74 rainbow. The blind bet 1000, I went in with my remaining 1900. Blind called and turned over Kc2c. Turn and river were clubs and I was gone.

I believe an all in bet would have prevented the call, but wanted others thoughts on whether my original 3xblind bet was correct considering my stack and position.

At this stage, your stack is too small to do anything but push or fold. In this case, with KQ, I push PF about 104% of the time.

You have <8x BBs left, just shove.

20 20 hindsight

As short as my stack was, I should have known better. Just wanted to hear others opinions. Thanks!

rickdraw48 said:

If your in the late mid position you still have a couple of plays to get a pair or a small ace. Your going to push all in which means your going into a race till the end. Your last chance is the under the gun position remember a pair against any two over cards you have the edge so why not spend a couple of more antes to hit a pair or a small A. Patience is a big part of the game.

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No, this is horrible. Your M is 5, this is the critical zone...it really doesn't get much worse that this position. You don't have time to wait anymore, that's part of what probably go you into this spot to begin with. You've go two large cards and still enough chips to make someone think twice about calling you. And if you do get called you still have to big face cards and a reasonable chance of winning. Plus your push is going to look desparate, so you're going to get called by wider ranges, so you likelihood of winning goes up. As presented, this is a no-brainer push...Arrrrrrrrrrr-innnnnnnnnn!!!!!

rickdraw48 said:

Your desperate image is not going to change whether your position 6, 5 or 4 your going to get called you might as well shoot for a pair a K Q is 70% loser against AK 51% loser against any small pair your only advantage is against smaller hole cards all though you can get pretty high odds against smaller cards up to 75% the likelihood of someone calling you with them is low so why not wait 2 or three more hands for a little edge. Patience pays a couple of small antes and you may double up.

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Why would I wait at this point? I have a relatively strong hand in KQ considering the situation. I would rather have KQ than A5 at this point and your suggestion is to through away a moderately strong hand in hopes you might get a pair? This isn't big stack poker, your chip stack is crippled and you need to make a move. At this point waiting isn't a reasonable option. You need to get the chips in and try to get off life support. If you wait and your hand doesn't come (which is more likely than getting it), then the blinds come through and you either wind up pushing with something ridiculous like J6 or you fold your blinds are even worse off than before. Given the two choices 1) Push now with a reasonably strong hand or 2) fold and hope to catch something better before the blinds screw me even more, I'll take #1 every time.

Not to mention, with the larger stack I have now (without risking hitting the blinds waiting for a better hand), I can still do more damage to another player's stack and have more fold equity.

Okay, so between this hand with KQ and the next two hands you'd rather fold the decent strength here and hope to get something better? Not me, odds are against it. It's bad enough enough our stack is so short, but we don't need to be throwing away decent cards on a hope and a prayer something better comes along.

There are a lot of different ways to play poker in general, I agree. But in this scenario, the best answer is pooooooshhhhhhhhhh. Seriously. You can't be throwing away decent cards in this scenario, make your stand and be done. Or, fold your cards and more than likely (odds are) push with Q7 or something before the blinds get to you.

Text book push. Especially if there are antes you cant afford to wait. KQ is probably = or better than a small pocket pair or small ace in this position anyway.

This is an absolute standard push here, rickdraw. You're listing all the hands we're dogs against and ignoring a) the times that we push and everyone folds, and b) the times that we push and get called by a worse hand.

Push here every time. I'll push with a hell of a lot less.

rickdraw48 said:

first of all I was clear to advise on my first reply that the final chance was the under the gun position so your comments about going through the blinds was unnecessary. It should be clear a KQ is has a very small add on a small Ace, aggressive big stack may call and medium stacks will call only with the nuts there is no reason to panic. let me be clear there is more then YOUR WAY to play poker JACK

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It's all about fold equity. You have to push while you still have some. KQ is a really nice hand in this situation, it's very unlikely that you're going to see anything better before having to pay more blinds. PUUUUUUSH!!!

From my point of view, you played perfectly. It was all luck on his part.

you have to shove this with the amount of big blinds you have left.

I concur, shove and pray.

Depending on how you count it, KQ is in the top 10% of hands. Can you really expect him to do better in the next few hands? KQ is a more effective hand than A5 even tho it may be technically lower ranked.

As for 3xBB or shove. Unless you are folding to a reraise or a bet on the flop, why not push? If you missed would you fold after the flop? It's clear the BB was a big stack and a bully. Did you know that before the hand?

You want to avoid difficult decisions, such as what to do when you've put 40% of your chips in and miss the flop. In this case it was easy because you hit, but what if you had missed? That, IMO, is the bigger reason to push PF.

Just my 2 cents

Goldog

well u got less then 8xthe bb, but as for the push, i myself would, depending on who i'm trying to push around, if it's the big stack who's conservative, then yes, but if he/she is opposite, then know for the simple fact that even if u are ahead, which u happend to be pre flop, this person just might see his/her cards as live, but as for the raising part nah, ur only two choices i believe were all in or all out, and like i said depending on the big stack if he/she loose then i fold, but if he/she is tight, that's the green light to steal.... Sry i can't be more help