Seeing lots of checks on rivers at micros

quick

quick

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I've been noticing that even at the micros there's more and more checking the river. Which can be flat out checking, check raising, or a lot of check shoving.

I'm not sure I understand why, esp. at the micros. I know the check-raise on river is an advanced play that at higher stakes can really have an impact on a player you know is loose and will shove against your monster hand or is tight and will fold to it. But at the micros it's really irksome trying to figure out.

I get it when you're not sure where you're at so you check it down and sometimes get surprised with a nice small pot win with your Q5 off in BB that hit a 5 on the board.

But I don't get it's use at the micros in many other cases. Often I'll see my two pair or TPTK check raised on the river and the person has flopped a full house or flush. Why slow play that? Why not bet on the turn, get some value potential?

Or in the rare cases I'll have someone check shove on a dangerous board and I'll call with a decent hand and be surprised to see something like 10 4 off in their hand with no draws, no pairs, no nothing. An outright bluff. On a board with lots of possibilities for me.

What gets me is there doesn't seem to be much rhyme or reason to these moves. I'll sometimes call and get a nice reward with my TPTK paying off against someone who check shoved me with a small pair. Other times I'll see it and know I'm beat and wonder why they didn't look for more value earlier. Or I'll call one of these baffling check raises on the river with a set only to see the person flopped a flush or full house or straight.

I get that if you have a monster you don't want to scare away money so you might slow it down. But then if you're last to act and check the monster on the river and the opponent also checks you lost a ton of value potential.

That's not to say I don't sometimes use a check raise or even a check shove on the river. But it's rare and it's generally against someone whose been calling me or betting me down to the river. And I'm certain they have a decent hand but I'm the favorite so I'll do it and get paid off.


Seems like people either check raise/shove the river and have a great hand that could have gotten lots more value, it's an outright bluff, or they can't let go of their paired up 5 9 off. Or they flat call you to the river with a hand they think is great, then check the river. Only to end up check shoving a win or winning on the check with lost value.

Thoughts?
 
Aces2w1n

Aces2w1n

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1. There is a lot of different things happening in the micros. There is a chance because globally things are tightening up so people are sliding down levels to keep infront. So more experienced players are found at lower levels nowadays.

2. So micros aren't as easy as they once were and you have these Russians/Ukrainians and other countries who are happy to make a couple dollars an hour.



Poker is a game of adaption and to keep in the game, you don't need to copy ways people do but work out the familiar patterns so you can profit from :)

We lose value by checking a lot of times. But often have to question yourself why are we raising? Many players in the micros might not be good enough to know where their hand really is it?? so they either check and trap... But they'll lose their value on the marginal hands or medium strength hands.

In the end who cares ... they can do whatever they want, they''ll give me their money in the long run.
 
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1. There is a lot of different things happening in the micros. There is a chance because globally things are tightening up so people are sliding down levels to keep infront. So more experienced players are found at lower levels nowadays.

2. So micros aren't as easy as they once were and you have these Russians/Ukrainians and other countries who are happy to make a couple dollars an hour.



Poker is a game of adaption and to keep in the game, you don't need to copy ways people do but work out the familiar patterns so you can profit from :)

We lose value by checking a lot of times. But often have to question yourself why are we raising? Many players in the micros might not be good enough to know where their hand really is it?? so they either check and trap... But they'll lose their value on the marginal hands or medium strength hands.

In the end who cares ... they can do whatever they want, they''ll give me their money in the long run.


You speak the truth. Good advice and good outlook.
 
LeeCallaghan

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interesting story and a lot of luck for donkeys.:mad:
1. There is a lot of different things happening in the micros. There is a chance because globally things are tightening up so people are sliding down levels to keep infront. So more experienced players are found at lower levels nowadays.

2. So micros aren't as easy as they once were and you have these Russians/Ukrainians and other countries who are happy to make a couple dollars an hour.



Poker is a game of adaption and to keep in the game, you don't need to copy ways people do but work out the familiar patterns so you can profit from :)

We lose value by checking a lot of times. But often have to question yourself why are we raising? Many players in the micros might not be good enough to know where their hand really is it?? so they either check and trap... But they'll lose their value on the marginal hands or medium strength hands.

In the end who cares ... they can do whatever they want, they''ll give me their money in the long run.
 
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Seems to me that you bet call too much cus you didn't mention bet folding once in your post. Thus, they check raise you a lot.
 
quick

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Seems to me that you bet call too much cus you didn't mention bet folding once in your post. Thus, they check raise you a lot.

I thought about this and what you're saying. I took a step back and looked at some hands and also thought about different scenarios. I realize it's not necessarily that I'm bet calling too much, it's that I'm not betting or raising often enough.

I used to be more passive but have recently been switching to a more tight aggressive approach. Which works well when it works but one misstep and a lot of progress can be lost in one or two hands.

I started out by tightening up my preflop hand ranges and being aggressive with them. Hitting flops I'll see what's out there and bet accordingly. If there's a re-raise to my bet unless I have a good draw/set on the board I'll generally fold to that. I realize I need to reraise that raise again on strong boards with either a set or lots of outs.

But then the biggest issue I'm seeing is I let the turn go too much. I let them see the turn cheap then make the big mistake of giving them a check on the turn and thus a free chance to steal with a big bet or see the free river.

And looking at my big pot losses, guess where a lot of the lost hands are. At the river. Actually at non showdown rivers where I missed a big draw or clearly see a very dangerous river card. If I get bet into there I'm folding.

I used to get frustrated betting a good hand for value and getting all folds around me and no action, but the opposite is not getting enough value in on strong hands and strong draws, then being passive about it and letting them see cheap or free cards to make their hands bigger and better.

I also saw a pattern where I'll bet call a bet if I have a strong straight or flush draw but then check if there's no bet made trying to get a free turn or river for my draw. But then sometimes that backfires and the free card helps the villian and then I get beat if the draw misses.
 
quick

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Seems to me that you bet call too much cus you didn't mention bet folding once in your post. Thus, they check raise you a lot.

I thought about this and what you're saying. I took a step back and looked at some hands and also thought about different scenarios. I realize it's not necessarily that I'm bet calling too much, it's that I'm not betting or raising often enough.

I used to be more passive but have recently been switching to a more tight aggressive approach. Which works well when it works but one misstep and a lot of progress can be lost in one or two hands.

I started out by tightening up my preflop hand ranges and being aggressive with them. Hitting flops I'll see what's out there and bet accordingly. If there's a re-raise to my bet unless I have a good draw/set on the board I'll generally fold to that. I realize I need to reraise that raise again on strong boards with either a set or lots of outs.

But then the biggest issue I'm seeing is I let the turn go too much. I let them see the turn cheap then make the big mistake of giving them a check on the turn and thus a free chance to steal with a big bet or see the free river.

And looking at my big pot losses, guess where a lot of the lost hands are. At the river. Actually at non showdown rivers where I missed a big draw or clearly see a very dangerous river card. If I get bet into there I'm folding.

I used to get frustrated betting a good hand for value and getting all folds around me and no action, but the opposite is not getting enough value in on strong hands and strong draws, then being passive about it and letting them see cheap or free cards to make their hands bigger and better.

I also saw a pattern where I'll bet call a bet if I have a strong straight or flush draw but then check if there's no bet made trying to get a free turn or river for my draw. But then sometimes that backfires and the free card helps the villian and then I get beat if the draw misses.
 
wildyetty

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interesting thoughts i am going to have to review some hands an ponder your thoughts
 
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