On seeing a cheap flop, and flopping decent.

Originally Posted by ManuMKG7

6 Max 0.5/1 NLH cash table. Bought in for the minimum and maintains 25BB. On this specific hand everyone limped in to us at SB with which is not agood enough hand to raise. I know for a fact that the BB wouldn't raise after me. So I decided to limp in too and see a cheap flop. BB checked as expected and flop came . I decided to bet 2.5BB (Pot 6BB) with top pair with decent kicker, and everyone folded except UTG (decent player, VPIP 32 PFR 10) limper, who just called. With this call I put him on small pocket pairs, two over cards or another 8. Turn comes . I checks and villain bets 7BB(Pot 11BB). I called and the river is . I checked and villain bets 10BB into a pot of 25BB. With the missed flush draw and only QT making straight on the river, and making two pairs, I decided to call. Villain showed and I lost the pot.

My questions are :

1. Was it okay to just limp behind and see a cheap flop with this hand or should I have just folded it?
2. With this many limpers, should I raise with hands like J8o to thin the field instead of calling and seeing the flop? What if I get 3bet and denied the 100% opportunity of seeing the flop if I had just called? UTG with 36o wouldn't have seen the flop with a raise.

Originally Posted by ManuMKG7

6 Max 0.5/1 NLH cash table. Bought in for the minimum and maintains 25BB. On this specific hand everyone limped in to us at SB with which is not agood enough hand to raise. I know for a fact that the BB wouldn't raise after me. So I decided to limp in too and see a cheap flop. BB checked as expected and flop came . I decided to bet 2.5BB (Pot 6BB) with top pair with decent kicker, and everyone folded except UTG (decent player, VPIP 32 PFR 10) limper, who just called. With this call I put him on small pocket pairs, two over cards or another 8. Turn comes . I checks and villain bets 7BB(Pot 11BB). I called and the river is . I checked and villain bets 10BB into a pot of 25BB. With the missed flush draw and only QT making straight on the river, and making two pairs, I decided to call. Villain showed and I lost the pot.

My questions are :

1. Was it okay to just limp behind and see a cheap flop with this hand or should I have just folded it?
2. With this many limpers, should I raise with hands like J8o to thin the field instead of calling and seeing the flop? What if I get 3bet and denied the 100% opportunity of seeing the flop if I had just called? UTG with 36o wouldn't have seen the flop with a raise.

Originally Posted by EarnDAStack

This spot kind of sums up all the problems associated with limped pots in one hand.

Firstly, I don't mind you flatting pre, there are a lot of players at the micros who as you said will let you see a flop a very large percentage of the time from the BB and you thought this was one of them. I would like to caution you on your use of "I know for a fact that he wouldnt raise me after" You don't. And you never will and it's a very bad habit to get yourself into assuming you "Know" what a player is going to do in each spot based on their player type or preflop stats

On the flop I think I would find it pretty hard to lead out in this spot, junk folds but I don't see much worse calling knowing you can Jam on either of the remaining streets. I think a check call is maybe fine here maybe dependent on what position raised but every overcard is a scare card, original limper could still have a high pocket pair still as limping that type of hand isnt uncommon at low stakes and that would make your J dead too plus someone might just have a better 8 or a 3 lol.

On the turn I agree with what Eetenor said, Villain who limps UTG isn't going to suddenly start trying to build a large pot with bad hand as their preference has been to take the more passive lines (32/10 is not decent its pretty much passive whale status) So turn is probably where I fold it. Him having 36 is pretty ridiculous but I don't think your 8Jo was doing very well against that line taken by that type of opponent.


Also I highly advise against playing short stacked, especially 25bbs it ends up being harder to play as you'll need to call off in more marginal spots for your whole stack because equities and pot odds will require it. If you have to move down to play 100bb deep do that, but there isn't really any point in trying to develop a 25bb strategy, it's really just a waste of time. Pros play vs other pros short stacked because they can put them in tougher situations and make them work harder on building defense ranges vs various stack sizes in game which takes time and effort, unless you have a strong understanding of both preflop and postflop range interaction I don't think you're gaining anything by short stacking and you're probably focusing time on things that will end up being detrimental to your game in the long run (Does having an edge w/25bbs in a cash game matter at all really)


Just my thoughts but studying your 100bb game is going to be infinitely more profitable then trying to develop a 25bb strategy vs a multiway limp pot in a cash game