My second 10,000 hands

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Deceitful_Frank

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Well actually its more 13,000-23,000 hands but you get the idea.
Just wanted to post some stats for you guys to cast your eyes over. My first 15,000 hands saw me losing some $150 in all but I am pleased to have improved enough over the last couple months to reduce the loss to around $9 over the last sample.

I am beginning to realise just how long it takes to really see how your are doing and that the insidious 5% rake makes an enormous impact on your profitability at the tables. I would consider myself to be better than most apponents at 1c/2c but I have still paid some $25 in rake for a net loss of $8.77. Quite prankly these figures shock me!

On the plus side I have lost around $140 less over the last sample. Will I be $130 in profit in 10,000 hands time? Maybe not! Going by 10BB/100 hands if I really rape the opposition I would be more than happy with $40!

Just wondered if there are any obvious patterns forming pointing to bad habits so I uploaded some data.

I am sure you guys have a knack of interpreting the PT3 figures so please do your worst!

Thanks and regards.
 

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Dwilius

Dwilius

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So this is 5nl, those look like solid 6max preflop numbers in the second group, is this fullring? Looks to me like you're too aggressive postflop. Very high cbet% which can be effective, but maybe you are too often putting money in on later streets without hands? Trying to bluff stations too often? I don't know, need a laggy player to comment, make sense of the stats.
 
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Deceitful_Frank

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Forgive me! This is 95% 0.01/0.02 or $2 NLHE full 9 player cash games. I think I may need to tighten up a little and be more selective with blind stealing hands?

I also need to stop re-raising people after the flop when I raised pre-flop and I have nothing plus there are overcards on the board. I am slowly learning that bluffing weak players is not great strategy.
 
Chiefer

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You can't bluff at this level. It's just not a wise move. 2NL players will call down with everything from gut shots to bottom pair.

How many tables do you play at one time?

basically, I would just tighten up a bit. get that vpip down to around 15 to 18 and keep your PR% as close to your VPIP as you can. You are completing the SB far too much. There is no reason to play those aweful hands even if you are priced in at 5 to 1. There is definate improvement from the first to the second set. All in all, I think just tightening up your game a bit will get you over the hump.
 
Chiefer

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Well to his credit he has dropped it a lot from 49% to 24% but yeah drop it some more.

I noticed that and that is good for sure, but like you said, he needs to drop it some more.
 
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Deceitful_Frank

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Well I geneally play 2-3 tables at a time depending on what other distractions are around. I feel this fills my time and keep me playing tight (obviously not tight enough) but gives me the time to look for other good tables and play an extra one for a few minutes while I wait to sit out a big blind. I never play more than 4 tables as I can get swamped if more than a couple hands past the flop. Its a shame when I hit the nuts but don't have the time to extract value.

Thanks guys for those comments. I compiled a list or ways to improve my game and hopefully become a winning player over the next 10k hands.

1) Generally tighten up my pre-flop play. I do however prefer a more loose free-wheeling style as I have found that playing too tight at this level can make it hard to get action. Everone hates raising UTG with KK or AA and only picking up the SB. I will aim for VPIP of 18-20 with a high Pre-flop raise value.
2) I also need to tighten up my blind stealing strategy. I use poker stove to find the hands that give a 10% edge over 1-2 apponents and use this to form a set of blind stealing hands. I will consider using the best for stealing from the cut-off and the rest for stealing from the button.
3) I will re-think the hands and situations where I raise from the SB, what do you guys think is reasonable? 15%? 20%? I could always just ignore the half bet already in and treat it jus like bad early position!
4) I need to stop being drawn in when a short stack pulls the all-in trigger but at the same time remember that a mid pair is pretty even against AK and AQ so pot odds could well make it worthwhile.
5) I will TRY TO stop re-raising people after the flop when I have not made my hand and there are overcards. I will TRY TO remember that just because I raised pre-flop and they merely called, it doent mean they couldn't have connected!
6) I will STOP calling the re-raise from the guy in later position when I have a pocket pair JJ or below. It never seems to end well as overcards are often usually on the way plus I am out of position. Set mining though could be an option but stack sizes would need to be huge to make it worth a go.

7) lastly, I will start playing suited connectors and suited gappers from 67s-89s plus 79s and 8Ts. Havent really decided on a calling strategy yet but will look into it!

What do you guys think? any more ideas?
 
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Panamajoe

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:D Frank, I can't analyze my stats let alone help u with yours, but I would like to say you showed good judgement coming here to ask. These guys are nothing if not helpful. They'll let you know their opinions and ideas and are willing to make the effort to give folks good advice.

Stick around and enjoy CC to the max!

Thanks for the thread, if I read the analysis, and can figure out how to get my numbers like that, I might be able to help meeself ;)
 
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Deceitful_Frank

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Will after some time on poker stove the following hands would give me a healthy 37% or better win rate against two other players so below is my general guide for blind stealing from the cut-off and button. Should take me comfortably below 35% in blind stealing frequency:

Any 2 cards both Ten and up plus Q9o and K9o,
Any suited Ace,
Any suited King+5 and up,
Any suited Queen+7 and up,
Any suited Jack+8 and up,
Any unsuited Ace+5 and up.

Time will tell!
 
Chiefer

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Well I geneally play 2-3 tables at a time depending on what other distractions are around. I feel this fills my time and keep me playing tight (obviously not tight enough) but gives me the time to look for other good tables and play an extra one for a few minutes while I wait to sit out a big blind. I never play more than 4 tables as I can get swamped if more than a couple hands past the flop. Its a shame when I hit the nuts but don't have the time to extract value.

That's good, that you only play a few tables at a time. A lot of people will tell you that playing as many tables as you can is the best way to make as much money as possible. I am not in that group. I prefer to play 2 to 4 tables at a time. It helps me keep up with the players and thier tendencies.

Thanks guys for those comments. I compiled a list or ways to improve my game and hopefully become a winning player over the next 10k hands.

1) Generally tighten up my pre-flop play. I do however prefer a more loose free-wheeling style as I have found that playing too tight at this level can make it hard to get action. Everone hates raising UTG with KK or AA and only picking up the SB. I will aim for VPIP of 18-20 with a high Pre-flop raise value.

At 2NL, 5NL, 10NL and even 25NL, i've found that it's better to get your vpip around 15 to 18. Actually mine is a bit lower. I range from 12 to 15 in most cases. The vast majority of these players are not paying any attention to what's going on around them much less paying attention to how tight you are playing but they sure will pick up on how loose you are. As far as AA and KK go in EP, always raise, raise, raise, raise. Never limp. you are leaving yourself wide open to any two cards making their hand. Remember that AA and KK etc is only just one pair. Always raise, never limp into an unopened pot.

2) I also need to tighten up my blind stealing strategy. I use poker stove to find the hands that give a 10% edge over 1-2 apponents and use this to form a set of blind stealing hands. I will consider using the best for stealing from the cut-off and the rest for stealing from the button.

You obviously have PT3 and have a hud and that's good for sure. Many players in micro's don't. Use that hud to determine who you can and can't steal from. While it's good to have a range of hands that you feel comfortable stealing with, your HUD will tell you what players you can always steal from with ATC. Eventually the blinds will get tired of your raises and reraise you, this is when you hope to have a legitimate hand because they are probably reraising you with something moderate like J10 or K9 simply because they are sick you of stealing from them. Use all of that information to your advantage. Constantly check your HUD stats and your opponents HUD stats.

3) I will re-think the hands and situations where I raise from the SB, what do you guys think is reasonable? 15%? 20%? I could always just ignore the half bet already in and treat it jus like bad early position!

In most cases, you should ignore it. Just remember that when you complete the SB, you will be OOP for the rest of the hand and waiting until the button or the cutoff of steal the blinds will get you back the blinds you lost. Just because they are forced antes doesn't mean you have to play them.

4) I need to stop being drawn in when a short stack pulls the all-in trigger but at the same time remember that a mid pair is pretty even against AK and AQ so pot odds could well make it worthwhile.

Avoid shorties as much as humanly possible!

5) I will TRY TO stop re-raising people after the flop when I have not made my hand and there are overcards. I will TRY TO remember that just because I raised pre-flop and they merely called, it doent mean they couldn't have connected!

A reraise is almost always a sign of strength unless you've seen the villian do this and showdown with nothing. give them credit for the most part. Most players at this level don't know how to make plays and their reraises are pretty much good. There is no shame in shutting it down just because you raised preflop. fold if you must and move on. Just keep it in mind for the next time you get into a hand with him.

6) I will STOP calling the re-raise from the guy in later position when I have a pocket pair JJ or below. It never seems to end well as overcards are often usually on the way plus I am out of position. Set mining though could be an option but stack sizes would need to be huge to make it worth a go.

As the saying goes. There are 3 ways to play JJ and none of them are right. Play them aggressively. I usually just flat a reraise with JJ, however it is wise to 3bet QQ and up.

7) lastly, I will start playing suited connectors and suited gappers from 67s-89s plus 79s and 8Ts. Havent really decided on a calling strategy yet but will look into it!

Suited connectors have a lot of equity in them when you hit them hard. It's unwise to play these too aggressively in micro's. If you can see cheap flops with them in LP then go for it. Just don't get overly aggressive with them as they can cause trouble and get you pot committed with draws that rarely hit.

What do you guys think? any more ideas?

All in all, it's great that you are working on your game, keep working always. Experiment with things, see what works and what doesn't. Stick with this forum and READ READ READ! Keep us up to date on how you are doing.
 
NineLions

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2 comments on what chief has already said;

- Open raising from the small blind for me is more a function of how the blind plays. If he's tight, doesn't call much, or folds to continuation bets well, I'll raise often. If not, as is likely to be the more common at 0.01/0.02, I'll fold because I'll be OOP as chief says, unless I have something that can hit a flop well.

- If you've got PT3, then rely on that when you play short stacks. Some are awful and a good source of money. The ones to avoid are the ones who have stats like 8/6; they understand that short stack strategy is to deny implied odds but only when a hand or good situation arises. The ones with stats like 40/5 or 25/15 just try to isolate them when you have a pair or big Ace, anything that will likely be ahead of their range. If you need help, use PokerStove to figure out what their range would be given their stats.


Generally your VPIP and aggression are high for full ring 0.01/0.02. Stick with better hands, fold more preflop, don't try to push players off hands at this level.
 
Lazmansa

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I play only .01/.02 & .02/.05 Ring games 6man.

I havent played not nearly as much hands as u have played but am winning be it small amounts.

The 1 thing to remember is that u are playing against players that are un-predictable and new to the game.Most of them will play with any 2 cards.THEY HAVE NO RESPECT FOR PREFLOP RAISES.

First find a table that u are happy playing at and get a read on the players at the table.Maby play less tables so you can concentrate on your oppesition.I only play a max of 2 tables at a time,but mostly 1 so i can get a good idea of the type of playes i am up against.

I will only raise pre-flop with a big hand AA KK QQ AK AQ JJ 1010.other than that i will try and keep the pot small pre-flop.I make most of my money post flop.but i will also fold a lot of hands at this point(DO NOT BLUFF).if i want to bluff i normaly do it after the turn.

so-

-keep the pot small pre-flop unles u have a big hand
-Patiance
-No bluffing unless u have a read on the players
-When u do bet with a hand i bet at least 2/3 of the pot(top pair with top kicker)
-Must be prapered to fold a lot of hands

I hope this helps a bit and just remember that at this level the way poker is ment to be played is not because people are still learning and the nice thing is that when u do get a hand u normaly get paid off because of the level of play.

Good luck.

Lazmansa:D
 
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Deceitful_Frank

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My latest 25,000 hands

Hello again people, just getting back to you with my latest sample, a more convinsing 25,763 hands. Hoping some of the more knowledgable regulars could cast their eyes over my numbers:)
 

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Deceitful_Frank

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Hello again people, just getting back to you with my latest sample, a more useful 25,763 hands. Hoping some of the more knowledgable regulars could cast their eyes over my numbers:)
As you guys can see from my graph the last 25k hands has been somewhat of a rollercoaster ride. It all started fanastically where I was making in the region of 30-40BB/100 hands. I believe this is consistantly possible at to 0.01/0.02 level IF I was always to be playing my A-game AND at the best times. I do however often find myself playing daytimes, playing ill, playing tired, playing pissed off... you know the times when life throughs shit at you and you know you shouldnt but you just cant help yourself!

You could include sections C, D and E in the graph as examples!

Well anyway I am confident that I there is no reason for my to ever have to re-deposit. I feel I am much better now at looking after my stack between large wins. Before I would play low pocket pairs in early position, I would C-bet with nothing and then continue to leak chips away of the turn and river hoping for those two outs, often outs that weren't even clean outs! Now I feel I have learned the odds in the majority of situations and have the will to fold my flush draw with no overcards on the flop when I'm being asked to contribute 40% of the pot.

I have tightened up in the second sample but seeing as I am playing more speculative hands I think my aggression is lower. Am I still playing from the SB too much? I am now happy with my blind stealing frequency. Are there any more numbers of note for my latest sample?

As always I look forward to your constructive critissm and welcome any tips.

Thanks in advance,

Frank.
 
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