screwing myself over

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ClubArrow77

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For the ginders out there, how long is too long to be at a table for a beginner. I was at the most fish table ever where about 6 or 7 of the 9 people seated could be classified as fish. Table VPIP was around 40s nearly the entire time I was there. The fish also had huge stacks, the two biggest maniacs (VPIP of 50 and 80) having stacks of $4 and $6 at 2nl, pretty much a dream.

Unfortunately, I was card dead and was folding pretty much every hand. I was getting crap like 53o, 27o. The only time I got KK, I only got minimum value with. I finally was able to raise on the button with 55 to see a KKA flop. I hit a 5 on the turn and knew I was ahead. I thought this was my big pot I had a huge hand against two big stacks who were bad, loose players. Too bad an Ace came on the river and knowing I was probably beat, I think I mentally told myself I had to still call villain's shove, basically having my full house lose to 2 fish playing with K rag.

I believe this was a simple bad beat for me although I might have benefited betting bigger or shoving on the turn but I was wondering how should people manage their time on the tables. A lot of people would say they would stay until there is no money to be made on the table and there was alot of money to be made here with the fish. However, I did not get any cards to play for over 70 hands and it started to feel like I should just switch tables.
 
dooydoo

dooydoo

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card dead is normal

sometimes on 1 table i will be 11/10 and another table 35/28 at 6max.

In a vacuum staying at that table would be a great decision but its not just about who is sitting at the table. What also matters is how well you are going to play after a certain amount of time.

I for example start to get complacent after 90mins and i usually take a break and do something else then go back at it again. I find that if i force myself to stay i end up making bad decisions and losing money so i leave before that happens.

Also if you are tilting for whatever reasons it might be a good idea to stop playing or switch tables because you will lose money and have a disadvantage.

I would only leave if you are not playing well but if you are just card dead and are not getting good situations i would stay because they will come and you are playing well, just not getting in good spots.

You hand though as you described was a clear fold on the river. AAKK5 board, what do you beat? I dont think they are playing QQ like this. Even if they are maniacs, they arent doing this light and since theres 2 of them, 1 must have something.
 
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ClubArrow77

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I know I was dead on the river and the call at the end was stupid. Im thinking that my staying at the table for so long (my session time says 103 minutes which is much longer than my normal sessions) affected my judgement so I was wondering how I should manage my time so that I dont make stupid decisions like this in the future.
 
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Big_Rudy

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I don't play a lot of tables so I run into this sometimes, too. I find that if I'm at a table for too long, and am card dead, then one of two things happen. Neither of them particularly good.

Either I start "pushing" a little more, playing hands that, although not terrible, are hands I wouldn't normally play. This puts me into situations that I'm not comfortable with post-flop and usually results in me spewing money.

The other possibility is that I remain disciplined, only play decent hands in decent situations, but since I'm card-dead this doesn't happen. Then, by the time I finally do get a hand, everyone at the table, even the biggest donkeys/fish have me pegged as super-tight and will give me no action.

So its kind-of lose/lose. My solution is to just leave the table and open a new one, regardless of how good the table I'm leaving should be. Technically, this is probably a -ev move, since you should stay at your good tables. But, in reality, it's a +ev move for me to leave even a good table after a while if I'm totally card-dead there and move to another table, even if its not as good.

In my case, if I've set at a table for, say, an hour and played a whole 2 hands, there is no point in staying no matter how good the table should be. Either I start spewing out of frustration, or I get no action if/when I finally get a hand. Just not much way to make any money in this situation. Best to just give-up and move.
 
dooydoo

dooydoo

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definitely. Take breaks when you feel fatigued. You will probably end up losing more money by staying than leaving and coming back 15mins later.

Poker is about advantages. When youre playing your A game, you have a big advantage over the other 2nl players because you have more skill, think better, and make better decisions. When you are fatigued, board, tilted, you lose a lot of your advantage and are no longer the shark at the table, but just another fish.

Once you lose your advantage, do something to get it back. In this case taking a break is the best way.
 
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ClubArrow77

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Thanks. I was playing tight because I didnt want to spew chips but just getting up and moving would have been the much better play although theoretically ev-. Im sort of glad that I didnt tempt myself into widening my range but I suppose even people who don't usually pay attention notice when Im folding hand after hand for over 70 hands.
 
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redvulture61

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I am 12 tabling FR 25nl 15/10/5 player normally though i will adjust my game to super nitty tables. Try adding more tables, the cards will come faster and you wont have the problem of being card dead quiet as so frequently. It's actually really profitable, i will only play AA,KK,AK,QQ,JJ from early position, the above and pocket pairs from middle position, and suited aces and the above from late position sometimes.
 
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ClubArrow77

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I play two tables right now. 12 would be too much but increasing to four or five might not be a bad idea. Thanks for the advice everyone. Any recommendations on how many hands to play on a table or to make a read? I usually find 15 hands as a good indicator since I see people jump in and out of tables quickly at 2nl at times.
 
dooydoo

dooydoo

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I start making reads before i sit down. Be careful when adding tables because if you cant think through your hand deep enough then you will end up losing. Just add 1 at a time once you get used to 2.
 
Arjonius

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It's not simply a matter of how many hours you've been playing. The key is to play when and where you're +EV. In terms of session duration, there are times I can easily play for hours without getting either mentally or physically tired. Other times, fatigue becomes irrelevant; e.g. when I realize I'm not sharp (and therefor not +EV) no matter how fresh I am.
 
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