Running it twice in live play

Want to ask the forum their opinion on running it twice in live games?

I for one always tell the game I'm OK with running it twice. My reason is...

A) If I sense weakness from villan I can make big raises. The type that is committing me. Fully knowing villan most likely won't want to just call and might have a hand that doesn't really want to shove like 77-JJ. We all know live villans play weak for the most part.

B) If I feel villan is strong and I have AA-KK I can shove fully knowing they are calling. If I'm crushing them I don't bring up the point to run it twice, but if they ask I always say yes.

Note: I don't feel this is unethical either do to the fact that I let the table know of this before hand.

BrentD22 said:

Want to ask the forum their opinion on running it twice in live games?

I for one always tell the game I'm OK with running it twice. My reason is...

A) If I sense weakness from villan I can make big raises. The type that is committing me. Fully knowing villan most likely won't want to just call and might have a hand that doesn't really want to shove like 77-JJ. We all know live villans play weak for the most part.

B) If I feel villan is strong and I have AA-KK I can shove fully knowing they are calling. If I'm crushing them I don't bring up the point to run it twice, but if they ask I always say yes.

Note: I don't feel this is unethical either do to the fact that I let the table know of this before hand.

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I've never had it run twice before (God Knows I wish I had that option Brought up to me)...As for the actual running it twice, I don't like it personally....Many reasons for it...

A) Holds the game up
B) Gives opponent better odds to catch/Suck-out Via river
C) Not fair to others in the game because some ppl might become jealous of you getting to run it twice with Say player A...But when player A goes AI against say another opponent, what if player A were to refuse him (Which btw is his right)....So there-fore for those reasons above I just don't like it...

I got nothing against it... but I never do it.

I think reducing variance is changing the game. I like to play the cards I have been given and play the natural board. I guess I'm a "purist". I think dealing with those tough beats makes you a better player. Plus I HATE a split pot.

Stix

the way I feel about it is that it just adds another level to the game.

If you don't feel comfortable with anyone running it twice after they annouce it you should probably speak up and denie ahead of time.

I don't think a game should ever not allow it. It's basiclly the same thing you do near the end of many live tournaments. The blinds and antes are generally extremely high ratio to stake levels and therefor the variance is high. Many people make chops to minimize the variance. Running it twice and other deal making is no different. It may feel different, but it's the same exact thing.

It also promotes a little gamble in the game. Not a nit fest with many small pots and only bigger ones with coolers come in. For example the only time stks get all-in pre-flop is AA or KK. If that is true than you are loosing value in 4 bet bluffing situations. They don't come up a ton, but they are their. Typical live players will quickly let you know if they have AA or KK by 5 bet shoving so you can get away, but they'll also fold way more often!

BrentD22 said:

the way I feel about it is that it just adds another level to the game.

If you don't feel comfortable with anyone running it twice after they annouce it you should probably speak up and denie ahead of time.

I don't think a game should ever not allow it. It's basiclly the same thing you do near the end of many live tournaments. The blinds and antes are generally extremely high ratio to stake levels and therefor the variance is high. Many people make chops to minimize the variance. Running it twice and other deal making is no different. It may feel different, but it's the same exact thing.

It also promotes a little gamble in the game. Not a nit fest with many small pots and only bigger ones with coolers come in. For example the only time stks get all-in pre-flop is AA or KK. If that is true than you are loosing value in 4 bet bluffing situations. They don't come up a ton, but they are their. Typical live players will quickly let you know if they have AA or KK by 5 bet shoving so you can get away, but they'll also fold way more often!

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Just curious, maybe it's the fact that it's 5:50am here, but If I'm not mistaken what your saying is Live player fold more often to shoves then not correct? If that's the case why would we want to offer then such a thing as Running it Twice? Lets look at the same Case AA VS KK now lets say player A)holds KK, and B)Holds AA...Then the betting would go something down these lines....Raise....Reraise.....Rereraise....AI....Now Assuming that the Kings Player were to fold....Does telling him you'll run it twice actually entice him to call....?

I don't have a problem running it twice. I never offer to run it twice whether behind or ahead. If I'm behind and I'm offered to run it twice, I'll accept happy to get a chance at a chop. If I'm ahead, more than likely I'll agree to run it 3 times, this way there is a definitive winner in the pot and it's not a 50/50 chop. Also if you have an over pair and you run it three times on the turn and river, it's a guaranteed third of the pot barring any straight and flush draws present.

I never run it twice, I want my opponents to know if they go all in with me, variance will be maximum.

Running it twice is for gamblers, real poker players get their money in when they are good and they dont need to increase the odds. You wanna play bingo go hang out in Florida!

ISuckYouOutNow said:

they dont need to increase the odds.

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I doesn't mess with the odds. Jesus you guys suck horribly at math.

Running it twice

Why in hell would anyone want to run a showdown twice. The idea in poker is to make money, and giving away half or more at the end is stupid. Sure, you may save money if you are behind at the end, but poker is a gamble: gamble to make as much money as possible. I guess if the variance to running it more than once is present, it may be right to run it more than once. But if you make an incorrect read, you will miss out on another share of the pot. A tight player may wish to run it twice to keep his losses lower, but a loose player should never run it after the showdown...Sendittoken..:hello:

It does not change the odds at all!!! most of you that are saying you wouldn't want to run it twice are not playing the stakes most people run it twice. High stakes players want to reduce their varience thats why they run it twice or more, they know suckouts happen and want to reduce their losses.
Here are 2 examples of running it more than once that didn't work out for the favorite.

YouTube- PokerStars Big Game hand w/ Hellmuth

YouTube- Antonius vs Robl: running it 4 times

ISuckYouOutNow said:

Running it twice is for gamblers, real poker players get their money in when they are good and they dont need to increase the odds. You wanna play bingo go hang out in Florida!

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Actually running it twice is exactly the opposite of gambling. Running it twice does not change the odds, it only lowers the variance.

sendittoken said:

Why in hell would anyone want to run a showdown twice. The idea in poker is to make money, and giving away half or more at the end is stupid.

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Mostly you do it to lower variance - either that appeals to you or it doesn't.

Why would you want to do it when you're ahead? Obviously because lowering variance appeals to you. But you might also do it because you want people to give you the option to run it twice when you get your money in and find out you're behind.

There's a few things in live poker that people let happen not necessarily because they're best for them in that particular hand but because they're best for the game as a whole.

Live poker isn't like online, there aren't endless tables running around the clock. If you think something is a little bit -EV in a given hand but it'll encourage a bad player to stay at the table or to spew more of their money away then it's often worth it to take that EV hit. Straddling can work that way - having the last action preflop doesn't really make a blind raise UTG worth it, but encouraging other players to do the same so there's more money in the pot when you're in position or encouraging the game as a whole to loosen up can be very positive.

Running the board twice can be the same way. If a fish wants to run it twice maybe you let him and hope to keep him in the game for a good while longer.

Here is an example that happened to me and why I usually offer to run it twice if I remember.

Playing 1/1 I had about 65 in front of me, I pick up QQ in the cut off 4 limpers so I raise to $12 get 2 callers, flop is Q 8 3 with 2 clubs, goes check check I bet all in for my remaining $53 get 1 caller I flip over my cards and he says "I have one of those damn" turn is a 9 river is a J then he says "I have a straight" and proceeds to flip over Q 10. That is how I run in cash games though I would have offered to run it twice but as soon as I flipped my cards they finished the board and I didn't get a chance.

And yes I realise that I was a big favorite and would have been an idiot to offer to run it twice but again I expect to be outdrawn so I might as well give my self a chance on another turn and river.

4 of my 5 worst bad beats have come in cash games and cost me about $300 each time.
Flopped top set to 2 other sets and lowest set hits quads on river btw it was AAA vs. KKK vs. QQQ on the flop and Q river.

Flopped nut flush aginst bottom pair and lose to runner runner straight flush. my AK spades flop was 8s 6s Js then turn and river were the 7s and 9s he had 65 off suit with the 5s he thought I had flopped top pair and his spade would be good if it hit.

Held 77 and flopped quads only to lose to runner runner higher quads QQ actually did that twice the other time was 10 10 flopped quads and lost to runner runner AA. so yea I'll run it twice 4 times 6 times 8 times whatever.

did antonius really loose 4 times

Drtanner said:

did antonius really loose 4 times

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Yes he did

is there a rule for this for live home games , what are rules for running it twice

Mase31683 said:

I never run it twice, I want my opponents to know if they go all in with me, variance will be maximum.

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I agree If i know im ahead why gove you a chance to share the pot...PSH run it once and shuffle up and deal again!

NEXT!

I'll tell you one thing winning the 1st one when running it twice feels good! Nothing is better to get in a set and have the board pair then the straight card or flush card comes in taking away 1 or more outs for villan the 2nd time we run the hand.

Running it twice will create a lot of gamble in a game. Try it in your home game some time (cash games only) and see how much less nitty the game becomes. You can take advantage of this!

BrentD22 said:

Running it twice will create a lot of gamble in a game. Try it in your home game some time (cash games only) and see how much less nitty the game becomes. You can take advantage of this!

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This is a very interesting point and the only reason I would even consider doing it. Would prefer to do it in a more of a fun home game crowd. Yeah I can see a fish mind "I get two chances to get lucky! YES! ALL IN!"

I've flopped the nuts on an ace high board. Villan checks and I bet 2/3rd pot to get value from hands with an ace and other draws. Maybe even worst made hands raise me and of course bluffs occasionally raise me too. He often check raises top pair good kicker or better and in thise case villan chose to check raise us. Villan doesn't know what pot odds or drawing odds are and never really wants to fold a draw unless they here the dreaded words all-in. They freak out and lock-up when they here us say "all-in". They also don't want to fold their tptk or other 2nd best made hand.

Allowing them the option of running it twice loosens them up. I'll often say all-in and if they are struggling with figure out how to fold I'll say we can run it twice if you call. This almost always gets tptk to call and vs. my straight, set, flush, 2 pair ect. they are drawing typically very very thin and I'm a big favorite to win both. Of course on the outside chance they suck-out runner runner style I'm almost promised at least half the pot. I'm freerolling.

Grossberger said:

It does not change the odds at all!!! most of you that are saying you wouldn't want to run it twice are not playing the stakes most people run it twice. High stakes players want to reduce their varience thats why they run it twice or more, they know suckouts happen and want to reduce their losses.
Here are 2 examples of running it more than once that didn't work out for the favorite.

YouTube- PokerStars Big Game hand w/ Hellmuth

YouTube- Antonius vs Robl: running it 4 times

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here is why i will never run it twice, the cards that come should be the cards that come and thats that!

why on earth would i want to give someone who has a lesser chance to win then me more chances

just isn't my thing

Another side effect of running it twice is to keep more players in action longer. If your playing an un-raked home game running it twice sure can keep it friendly. At least if you get sucked out on twice you can laugh with everyone else cause well it's kinda funny.

BrentD22 said:

Another side effect of running it twice is to keep more players in action longer. If your playing an un-raked home game running it twice sure can keep it friendly. At least if you get sucked out on twice you can laugh with everyone else cause well it's kinda funny.

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And if this allows the losers to think they're losing at a slower rate, then by God, its a great idea!

They are losing at a slower rate. It keeps variance down and keeps money in the pocket longer. When you're ahead you run it once cause you want it coming in like it should be coming in.