Running it multiple times strategy

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dazzammm

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Hi,

as a very poor live cash game player, playing as stakes higher than i can afford I like to run the board multiple times.

Is there a general strategy as to when to ask for it and how many times to run it?

also, what are the rules / etiquette on accepting / declining running it more than once?

(This all comes from a massive pot i lost where i had aces vs kings vs jacks and lost to a jack on the river - the opponent refused to run it more than once. ive since discovered it was because he didnt understand what i was asking for!)
 
M

Marginal

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If you are going to ask to run it twice, do it for all situations. If not all situations, dont ask.
 
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baudib1

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If people ask I always run it multiple times, and most of the time I don't care if it's 2 times or 3 times.

Sometimes I'll ask to run it more than once, but a lot of people never do business (this is what we call it in NY). Most of the time I'm happy just doing it once. I usually ask if I'm way ahead in a big pot. Most clubs don't allow business in 3-way pots but house rules are different everywhere.
 
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trolllord59

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I will always run it more than once if its requested because it does not change the % of the times your hand will win. There is no advantages or disadvantages to run it once or twice. I once offered to run it 3 times against some fish who i was 90% favourite in the hand against i still won it all 3 times and took the whole pot.
 
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dazzammm

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thanks for this.

I was thinking always do it an odd number of times to ensure someone is ahead of the deal and the number of times is based on your chance of winning. (e.g. AA vs KK twice, set vs flush draw 3-4 times)

i play with gamblers who dont care if they have to reload so usually only run it once. the above pot was for about £120 so to lose to a 2 outer against the biggest underdog of the 3 will hurt for a while. his post win etiqutte is pretty appalling to. to show how what a bad player he is he folded aces a few hands later because i had lost with them!!!

has anyone got any info on the rules - could i have insisted on running it more than once.
 
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baudib1

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Unfortunately, doing business and straddling are not even in the rules of poker (if you go by published material). But they are popular so a lot of places will allow them.

But there are no established rules and a lot of poker rooms or individual dealers make up their own rules as they see fit. But it's pretty much universal from my experience that all players must agree on any kind of deal.
 
MediaBLITZ

MediaBLITZ

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yeah the house will govern the "rules" on it. So be sure to ask the floor manager/boss. It's not even an option at one place I play.
 
JDAWG5

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Hi,

as a very poor live cash game player, playing as stakes higher than i can afford I like to run the board multiple times.

Is there a general strategy as to when to ask for it and how many times to run it?

also, what are the rules / etiquette on accepting / declining running it more than once?

(This all comes from a massive pot i lost where i had aces vs kings vs jacks and lost to a jack on the river - the opponent refused to run it more than once. ive since discovered it was because he didnt understand what i was asking for!)

I would worry about the bold before I would worry about running it multiple times.
 
D

dazzammm

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I would worry about the bold before I would worry about running it multiple times.

agreed. its still the cheapest live game around and im usually crushing the game - the players are terrible but do like to gamble hence the potential swings
 
JCgrind

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i only ever run it more than once at homegames where there isnt rake. its pretty silly running it twice imo if youre in a flip/60:40 spot because youre just going to get crushed by rake, from my experience, rake applies to both pots so you will often pay more than cap
 
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aomdmm

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In an all in situation I will always agree to run it 3 times, 9 time out of 10 you lose a third at most and still come out ahead. I'd rather have the 1% of the time that I win the first and lose the next two (while still staying in the game without a rebuy) than have the 20% that I lose outright. Eg. AA vs JJ is 80:20 odds are you wont lose any of the 3 times you run it (cause technically the odds are 80:20 for all three before any are ran) but theres that chance that you could get cracked on the first run, if you dont run multiple times then you're cracked... if you do run multiple times what are the odds you get cracked all 3? Nearly nonexistent unless they pick up a straight on 1 of em.
 
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dazzammm

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is there a point you would only run it once and embrace the variance? e.g 90%+ fav? 80%+ fav?
 
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aomdmm

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No, the way I see it your odds on to win anyway, you don't really lose anything by allowing the other player a sliver of hope.

I have yet to hear a good reason not to do it. That being said I will never make the offer or suggestion myself, but if you offer even if I'm way ahead I'll agree.
 
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baudib1

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It reduces your variance and fosters goodwill.

1. It's live and you're probably not properly bankrolled for it.
2. Scenario: You're at a $1/$2 game with a max buyin of $500. You're sitting on $800. You're involved in a huge hand with Player A, who is a TAG with $600. You get it all in on the flop with top set and he has a flush draw/straight draw. Player B is a megawhale with a $1,000 stack who's not involved in the hand. You should want to run it about 20 times in this spot.
 
A2345Razz

A2345Razz

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I dont think its proper in the games ive played until you get to AT LEAST 5/10....

Ive literally never seen it run multiple times at 2/5 whether in Vegas, NJ or Indiana...like never ever. Ive seen it multiple times at 5/10 especially when the equities are 50-50 or 45-55...no point in regs scalping each over what is essentially variance or denying a donk anything he or she wants that has no effect on the equity in a hand.

And LOL at the casino charging rake on each run...no way would any reputable gambling establishment do that in North America...as for some donkey home game with a 13% effective rake, who knows.

Hope they got the topless dealers at least.
 
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baudib1

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It's pretty standard in my games. I have a pretty good feel for most regs' preferences too.
 
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msufan

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has anyone got any info on the rules - could i have insisted on running it more than once.

You cannot insist on it. If the other player says no, you're stuck running it once.
 
Emperor IX

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It would seem to me that running it>once isn't as +EV as running it twice unless you got your money in bad in the first place without odds.

I personally would never run it more than once, but then again, I refuse to straddle or chop as well.
 
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baudib1

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Your +EV is exactly the same if you run it once or 20 times.
 
Matt Vaughan

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Your +EV is exactly the same if you run it once or 20 times.

This. ^

The only reason you would ever run it twice would be if you are on a limited bankroll and are trying to reduce short-term variance. But you'd need a VERY limited bankroll to seriously be concerned with running it twice in any given hand...
 
Emperor IX

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Your +EV is exactly the same if you run it once or 20 times.

Ah yes. Sorry, I had just woken up, and I'm only just back to poker after ~3 years, haha
 
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baudib1

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The only reason you would ever run it twice would be if you are on a limited bankroll and are trying to reduce short-term variance. But you'd need a VERY limited bankroll to seriously be concerned with running it twice in any given hand...

There are plenty of reasons to run it twice that have nothing to do with bankroll, some of which I've already detailed in this thread. There are arguments against doing it as well. But very few people are properly rolled for live poker anyway.
 
youregoodmate

youregoodmate

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The only reason you would ever run it twice would be if you are on a limited bankroll and are trying to reduce short-term variance. But you'd need a VERY limited bankroll to seriously be concerned with running it twice in any given hand...

Partly this. But personally if your bankroll is nicely rolled for the limit you're playing then theres really not much point in running it more than once. It barely effects EV at all. A lot of my friends get frustrated that I wont run it more than once but it seems its only because they are afraid of losing the whole pot.

If thats the case then you shouldnt be playing those limits anyway.
 
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Kaymoar

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run once... variance is a part of poker yo
 
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aomdmm

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Perfect example: I ran my AKs into 84s last night all in on the flop with top top.

Had I not run it three times I would have been murderous instead of simply smoulderingly mad.

Flop was 8A8
 
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