Representing the set

fletchdad

fletchdad

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I play my sets a lot the same - at.10nl. I set mine, and when I hit, OOP I usually bet, unless I have an agro to act after me and I am pretty sure he pounces on my weakness, then I C/R. IP, I usually raise if bet into, and bet if checked to, again, unless I have an agro that I think will often c/r on a flop with say an A, and if I check behind I am pretty sure he reps the A then I can raise here as well.

So, what happens most of the time is I get folds. Say I have 33 OOP and i call a 3x from CO in the BB. Player opens fairly wide in this position. Flop comes K, T 3 RB. I bet, he folds. I c/r he folds. Similar situation when I call my 33 or 77 or 99 IP. Flop hits me, with overs, and either bet/raise/fold or c/bet//fold.

So, my thinking is, if I get believed most of the time with my sets, what are good conditions for repping a set with my air or missed flops?

Can this even be answered???

Do I even want to do this at 10nl????? 25nl??
 
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iamnothere

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This probably depends on your table image...if you are to tight, whenever you bet or raise opponents think you have something...you should raise preflop with pocketpair sometimes, or check the flop completely, mix up your game... I would also guess you play around 15% of your starting hands or less,and you raise preflop most of them, so it is obvious when you flop a set...i could be wrong :)
anyway, the texture of the flop is important, because you need your opp to flop something or to have a draw in order to call you, my experience is it is best to bet/raise a flop with only one high card, most of the time people think you are bluffing...
good conditions for faking a set depend on the table: if it is a tight aggressive table, then do it about 75% of the time, on a loose table it is better to valuebet...maybe you keep playing tight abc tables, check out the ppf and av pot columns for unusually low values
 
micromachine

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I've started trying to bluff rep sets at 16nl/25nl with some success.

A good one is to c/r on lowish flops which have 2 of a suit. When you don't cbet, villain will commonly try to take the pot away with over-cards or a weak draws. Raise it up to rep a set which is not wanting to be outdrawn by FDs.

c/c then c/r the turn of a lowish non-scary board can also work but requires more bravery.

I think you must forget about your real hand and play exactly how you would play a set. And ofc give up if they call or raise.
 
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bert0111

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yeah seconded for table image

if there is a huge stack at your table and you come across as being loose. your getting called
 
flatcaller

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I personally would not look at is as how do I bluff a set but how do I get people calling my set when I hit. Ppl hardly put another player on a set to begin with, so to set bluff is tough. Ppl will just think you have pair or are bluffing. But getting back to getting ppl to call your set you need to bet more on flops you do miss your set. Don't be predictable and check a missed flop, bet your pair for two reason u may be in front and ppl will think you be looser with there play if they see you Cbet more. You flop set you make standard Cbet and top pair will be able to get there chips in much easier.
 
WVHillbilly

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So, what happens most of the time is I get folds. Say I have 33 OOP and i call a 3x from CO in the BB. Player opens fairly wide in this position.
Don't call from the blinds with 33 against this player. Setmining in this spot is never going to be profitable. Why? Because his range is wide and he's very rarely going to have a hand to pay you off.
 
MediaBLITZ

MediaBLITZ

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Ppl hardly put another player on a set to begin with, so to set bluff is tough.


This - but it can be done. It will take a bit of time since you are going to have to make sure everyone understands your image is "the set guy". The cards have to fall right and it is certainly not something you will be able to do with great regularity.
Maybe a bad example but one night I hit quads 4 times in about 3 hours - they all went to showdown. Of course i convinced them I had them another time that I did not show. Anyway it got to the point that any time the board paired up I could bet half pot and they went running for the hills. So yeah, it can be done.
 
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Rickman

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Playing Live (1/2), I'd be hesitant to raise rep'ing a set. Too many villains won't give you credit for it. That said, you can certainly rep that you hit the flop and are pretty sure they did not. So, a CR against a villain who is likely to have missed the flop w 2 big cards is effective. But, 95+% of the players w an over pair or even TPTK w a weak ace are going nowhere on your CR.

With position, it may be cheaper to float the flop and bet when checked to on the turn. The risk of the villain hitting on of his cards on the turn (12%) is offset a bit by the chance you actually hit your set on the turn. (4%) A called flop bet is a scary thing for the typical player - sometimes enough that you get a read on the discomfort and can take it away on the turn safely.

Like your thread though. Is a reminder to me that if villains are folding to my raises that often, that is open season for me to raise more! (something I know, but do not follow through on enough)
 
TylerN

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Don't call from the blinds with 33 against this player. Setmining in this spot is never going to be profitable. Why? Because his range is wide and he's very rarely going to have a hand to pay you off.

This

You say he folds a lott in that scenario because his range is wide and doesnt connect on alot of boards!
 
John A

John A

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Just bet your hands well, and play smart pre-flop poker. You really don't need to try and rep things at micro stakes. It's a waste.

Give you a quick example. I did a 50nl video the other day and floated a AQx flop with two hearts when KJ, with the plan of bluffing later against a reg for that game. Turn came 6h. Reg bet, I flatted. River came a brick. Reg checked, and I shoved the river. He snap called with AJ. Just not enough thinking going about hand ranges and what I'm repping, which is obviously a flush.
 
Arjonius

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Just bet your hands well, and play smart pre-flop poker. You really don't need to try and rep things at micro stakes. It's a waste.
I agree, but not for the same reasons against all players. Trying to rep something against players who won't understand what you're repping and/or who aren't aware of how you play whatever you're repping when you actually have it, and/or who won't fold if they have something anyway is not productive. At NL 10, they are definitely the majority. In addition, decent players don't necessarily have enough history with you to believe the story you're telling.

This does leave some players against whom you can rep hands. But they're the better ones. Once you recognize who they are, you should tend to play fewer and/or smaller pots against them. Even though you can outplay them, how consistently can you expect to do so? Also, how much will this add to your win rate over the long run, and isn't it likely to be more profitable to work on winning more from the mediocre and poor opponents than from the good ones?
 
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Rickman

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I agree, but not for the same reasons against all players. Trying to rep something against players who won't understand what you're repping and/or who aren't aware of how you play whatever you're repping when you actually have it, and/or who won't fold if they have something anyway is not productive. At NL 10, they are definitely the majority. In addition, decent players don't necessarily have enough history with you to believe the story you're telling.

This does leave some players against whom you can rep hands. But they're the better ones. Once you recognize who they are, you should tend to play fewer and/or smaller pots against them. Even though you can outplay them, how consistently can you expect to do so? Also, how much will this add to your win rate over the long run, and isn't it likely to be more profitable to work on winning more from the mediocre and poor opponents than from the good ones?

This is very well said. Why try to "outplay" the better players who are good enough to "get" what you are representing? Better to choose lesser competition. Avoid FPS against those folks and just go to value town.
 
sam1chips

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you definitely have to have a tight image at the table in order to successfully represent a set...if you have bluffed a couple times before, or just lost a showdown (you would have the table view of being on tilt), theres no way you could represent a set
 
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GWU73

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Instead of bluffing to represent a set more frequently, consider flating the flop with your set (occasionally) and check raising the turn; even if there are draws present. Your opponent will only rarely have the draw; if it comes in you lead as a semi bluff / thin value bet on the turn. If it does not come in your opponent is likely to bet again to "protect his hand" and you check raise here to commit him to the pot.
 
WVHillbilly

WVHillbilly

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Instead of bluffing to represent a set more frequently, consider flating the flop with your set (occasionally) and check raising the turn; even if there are draws present. Your opponent will only rarely have the draw; if it comes in you lead as a semi bluff / thin value bet on the turn. If it does not come in your opponent is likely to bet again to "protect his hand" and you check raise here to commit him to the pot.
Better to ch/r your sets AND your draws imo.
 
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