repping the straight?

JAMILE1

JAMILE1

Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
Joined
Mar 26, 2005
Total posts
2,531
Chips
0
Ok you are on the BB with 10s7s, at a 9 player table, couple of folds then a raise, mind you this player raising has a tight image plays premium hands. He makes a 3x raise all folds to you, just for discussions sake you call the raise flop comes 7h 6s 5c he bets, you call turn is 2d ok he bets now you call river is 4h now do you make a substantial bet to represent the straight? just something to chat about replies andf bashings greatly appreciated LOL

Oh BTW he has Ac Ah
 
titans4ever

titans4ever

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 20, 2005
Total posts
1,238
Chips
0
That is a tough one. You have been firing out since the flop. I think him folding is about 50/50 at this point. He has called you all the way down, why would he fold now? For the record, most people have a hard time letting go of AA no matter what.

I think he played his aces way to slowly and should have reraised on the turn to get you to fold so the scare card never would come up.
 
twizzybop

twizzybop

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 24, 2005
Total posts
2,380
Chips
0
Yes but if he is tight and knows your style of play.. then trying to bluff would make him just call anyway.
 
Four Dogs

Four Dogs

Legend
Silver Level
Joined
Apr 13, 2005
Total posts
4,298
Awards
1
Chips
17
When I've hit a draw I'll usually make one of two bets on the river; a small bet I know will get called, or a large one I hope will get called. The problem is you don't want a call so option 1 is right out. The problem with option 2 is that it looks just the way it's supposed to, like a steal attempt. This guy hung with you to the river, so there's too good a chance he'll call you. Time to check.
 
Dorkus Malorkus

Dorkus Malorkus

HELLO INTERNET
Silver Level
Joined
Jul 12, 2005
Total posts
12,422
Chips
0
- Fold preflop

- Raise the flop, then you have a better idea of where you're at earlier. If you take the pot down, great, if he calls or raises it's time to give up on the pot.
 
Jesus Lederer

Jesus Lederer

Rock Star
Silver Level
Joined
May 9, 2005
Total posts
416
Chips
0
Completely agree with Chris. When your opponent raised preflop, you must put him on a good hand because you said he was a tight player that just played premium hands. Maybe not a high pocket pair, but definitely high cards. So when you see the flop, you know that it´s most likely that his hand didn´t improve with those low cards. With that little information you may think that he´s betting just because he raised preflop and he want to protect his hand now. In that situation you may put your opponent in something like AK or high pocket pair. So in my opinion the best move you could do there is to raise him with your top pair, which is vulnerable against high cards. If you get called by two overcards like AK, that´s great because you´re huge favourite to win the hand at that moment, so you want to get more money into the pot. Now, if you get reraised, you can easily put him on high pocket pair and fold at that time without losing more money. So in my opinion a reraise is the best move post flop (and BTW i also agree with dorkus that you had to fold preflop).
Now lets go to the turn: again it comes a low card. Probably your opponent still haven´t improved his hand. By calling in the flop you didn´t get information so you can´t really know if you´re ahead or behind at this point. He bets. Should you call? You didn´t reraised in the flop and you´re paying for that now with a very tough decision to make. I think it´s still time for a reraise for the same reasons as before (or fold if for some reason you realize he has pocket pair). You´re obtaining nothing with your calls. If you thought you had him beated, why not reraising? And if you thought your opponent had you beated, then you should fold.
Ok, you called and the river makes 4 consecutive cards in the board. You´re are asking if you should represent the straight there. I believe that if you´re asking for that it means that you´re not going to value bet. You want your opponent to fold, and i deduce that it´s because you know that you´re beat. So why not folding before? Ok, you didn´t do it and now you´re in this situation, so lets discuss it. If you´re going to bet to make your opponent fold, first of all you have to think in any good reason that your opponent may have to think that you really have a good hand. You have to be into your opponent´s shoes and analyze the previous streets. What do you think your opponent put you on? What is your table image? Could he thought that you called with an 8 or a 3 preflop? Preflop he raised 3xBB and you called from the BB, so in my opinion he could expected that you called with anything (including A8, A3, 33 and of course 88). In the flop you checked, he bet and you called. The board showed 3 consecutive cards. There is any chance that he thinks you have a draw? It seems that yes, because he doesn´t have any information and he´s protecting his hand by betting. What did your call mean to him? It depends on 2 things: how much did he bet and his read on you (if according to him you are a chaser or not). If he thinks you´re a chaser, he could expect that call, but if he didn´t think it, probably that call meant to him that you had a weak hand (compared with his hand). In the turn again you checked, he bet and you called. Your constantly calls could meant to him that maybe you already had the straight made, but there is a fact to dismiss that: He made a bet. If he thought that you had a straight at that moment, definitely he wouldn´t bet in the turn. So up to the moment probably your opponent thinks that you have either a pocket pair (or a low pair with the board) or a draw. Now the river comes and it´s a scare card for your opponent. Now the question is: is it scary enough? Again i´ll repeat, it depends on your opponent´s read on you. If he thinks you are a chaser, it could be possible that he would fold to a river bet. But my final answer to your question is no, you shouldn´t try to represent the straight. The reasons are this: It´s true that your opponent may think that you were chasing, but you have to "weight" that possibility compared to the other possible hands, like high pocket pair or a pair with the board, which would "justify" all the calls down to the river. If the possibility that he thinks you have the straight is X, then the possibility that he thinks you have a pair is X+2 (i know that what i said is very subjective, but i hope you got the main idea). That "+2" difference may be enough to justify an attempt of bluff, because i assume that the pot is nice at this point so if you make a normal bet you probably wouldn´t need to win every bluff to break even. But then the opponent´s hand factor comes. I think you shouldn´t expect that he´s going to fold too often in that situation because he had a hand that was good enough (high pocket pair with a board that most likely didn´t help anyone) to make a call in the last street when you invested a lot of money on previous ones. Also as Dogs said, there is an amount betting problem. If you make a small bet, yes it may seem that you´re value betting, but clearly your opponent is not going to fold aces at that point. The same applies to a normal bet, and if you make a huge bet probably is going to seem like an obvious bluff.
So remember two important things:
1.- If you want to do a bluff you have to think why are your almost sure that your opponent will fold.
2.- Next time you´re going to check-call down to the river ask you why are you doing that, and if it wouldn be better to raise or fold.

p.s: gfpokerfan, i think you read wrong the betting sequence. The opponent didn´t play the aces slowly, actually he bet on every street. He was the one that fired out on every street and jamile was the one that called down to the river. I hope you read this so you can analyze again the situation.
 
JAMILE1

JAMILE1

Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
Joined
Mar 26, 2005
Total posts
2,531
Chips
0
Thanks for your reply gang JL well explained ty
 
Tammy

Tammy

Can I help you?
Administrator
Joined
May 18, 2005
Total posts
57,717
Awards
11
US
Chips
1,192
Dorkus Malorkus said:
- Fold preflop

- Raise the flop, then you have a better idea of where you're at earlier. If you take the pot down, great, if he calls or raises it's time to give up on the pot.
Yes, this seems the best course of action to me. I personally would have folded pre-flop after the raise, but had I stayed in, I think Chris' analogy is best.
 
Top