Razz strategy

Would you say razz is a call and pray game?? If you have A23 then on 4th you get a 10 and 5th you get a 8 and opponents board is showing 742 do you call?

Lolwhut?

There are about 15 pieces of info you left out of your question...

Dead cards for one....did he limp call?

.....I dont think you understand very fundamental concepts of Stud game play.

I am NOT a RAZZ expert but I have done well with it in HORSE tourneys, so Ill give you my $.02. At that point in the hand I think you are hoping an 8 is going to win. It may, so I would look to the players tendencies. If he is only playing solid hands, I would fold. If he is the type to play with any up Ace, I would assume the 8 would win and check my pot odds and odds to hit. If the price is good, I would call.

GWU73 said:

I am NOT a RAZZ expert but I have done well with it in HORSE tourneys, so Ill give you my $.02. At that point in the hand I think you are hoping an 8 is going to win. It may, so I would look to the players tendencies. If he is only playing solid hands, I would fold. If he is the type to play with any up Ace, I would assume the 8 would win and check my pot odds and odds to hit. If the price is good, I would call.

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No, youre not a Razz expert.

You arent even addressing the 2 most important things in this hand...

Did villain limp call, raise call, raise and we smooth called(we shouldnt be)....etc. and the dead cards in the hand.

TY in advance.

Sure, Razz can be seen as a call and pray game. The best starting hand in the game is only ~3:1 favorite against something like K8_7. But that, to me, is a good thing. It means you get to play more starting hands, because many of them have the pot odds to do so. And unlike NLHE, the value of your hand changes more with every street. So you can often outplay your opponent by adjusting to these changes in value more than he does.

So yes, playing Razz, no one starts with a made hand. Everyone has to draw additional cards to win. This just makes the game different.

In the situation you posed, the way the hand played out on 3rd street will usually tell you how you should proceed. But against a random hand, you're typically a 60/40ish dog in this spot with poor implied odds (your opponent will typically know when you're ahead, and you won't know if he has you beaten). I probably take 1 more card off, but folding isn't a huge sin if the pot is small.

Any ideas on what HUD stats are necessary for microstakes Razz?

I never played with a HUD. But players who play too many hands on 3rd, continue with bricked off hands on 4th & 5th, and who fold a lot on the river always catch my eye. Players who don't raise/re-raise strong starting hands on 3rd are also a good read to have.

I never raise unless the board is full of junk, or I'm 4 to a 7 at least.

A2345Razz said:

No, youre not a Razz expert.

You arent even addressing the 2 most important things in this hand...

Did villain limp call, raise call, raise and we smooth called(we shouldnt be)....etc. and the dead cards in the hand.

TY in advance.

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+1 I need to know the dead cards, villians action and villian's general style of play and knowledge of the game.
Also in this game what is the structure/size of the bring in bet in relation to the ante.
Is this a tournament or cash game?

JusSumguy said:

I never raise unless the board is full of junk, or I'm 4 to a 7 at least.

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Confirmed far from optimal strat.

A2345Razz said:

Confirmed far from optimal strat.

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I play HORSE... and this strategy gets me through the razz round fairly unscathed.

In a straight up Razz game, I'm the fish.

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Razz is in fact not a game of wish and pray.... I find it to be the easiest game to read what kind of hand my opponent has.... for example in your situation yes this player already has a possible 7 low... so your hand can go either way... the easiest thing to do in this situation is fold as he could have made hand and you're drawing twice to catch up... not usually a good situation. However he could be playing his showing cards to his advantage and actually have a pair hiding in there somewhere and still be drawing... this is where u have to know your players history to make a decision to continue or fold.

above posters are mentioning dead cards which is important as well... if you have A23 10 8 by 5th and you saw lots of 5s 6s and 7s on the board already (your outs) odds are your not going to catch one... so take that into consideration as well

play your cards according to your opponents board and you will find great success... when you're given the option to bet first you should take it as you're already showing a winner while the others are drawing. you know on every street whether or not you're winning or losing because the hand combinations are far less than a play high stud game.

Aggression is my favorite play in razz... #1 because I read my opponents hands easily by what they're showing #2 once you take down a couple pots by being aggressive and turning over winners people are more likely to give you credit for a hand lower than theirs because they arnt confident enough to keep going. Can't tell you how many pots i've won in razz with a hidden pair or two pair while my opponent keeps getting hi card bricks on 4th 5th and 6th... i just keep betting

JusSumguy said:

I play HORSE... and this strategy gets me through the razz round fairly unscathed.

In a straight up Razz game, I'm the fish.

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No no no, you have to be like me in Stud Hi and spew your fair share!!!

A2345Razz said:

No, youre not a Razz expert.

You arent even addressing the 2 most important things in this hand...

Did villain limp call, raise call, raise and we smooth called(we shouldnt be)....etc. and the dead cards in the hand.

TY in advance.

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This is what goes into the part about how does he play, and what are the odds. That should be fairly obvious. No need to be a snot. As for the expert part, duh! Razz is a fairly mechanical game and using pot odds is the only way a primarily flop game player like me can do well. You do not need to be an expert to beat that game.

GWU73 said:

This is what goes into the part about how does he play, and what are the odds. That should be fairly obvious. No need to be a snot. As for the expert part, duh! Razz is a fairly mechanical game and using pot odds is the only way a primarily flop game player like me can do well. You do not need to be an expert to beat that game.

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Any response is going to sound snotty to you so ill just refrain from going fully into analysis...

By the way, the action in the hand and the villains tendencies are two completely different things. Im not sure how you came to believe one overlaps the other....but thats ok.

You never need to be an expert to beat any game; you just need to play with people who are less expert than you.

You are up against a possible made hand which you could be trailing the betting has doubled and you need runner runner low cards to beat?

What other low cards have you seen is the opponent tight or loose, known to bluff?

Did you raise 3rd street and did he call or raise?

Without that information the hand is a clear fold?