Razz betting strategies

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bilgert

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I don't know how many people here play razz cash games, but this has come up several times with me and I don't know if I'm playing this correctly and would love to hear other people's thoughts.

Suppose I have the bring-in with a 10 up and I have two cards to a wheel in the hole, something like (3 5) 10 and everyone fold except for one player who has a 7 up and completes- which he/she is likely to do with a premium hand or with trash. Since I have two cards below his up card, I choose to call.

Now on 4th street, let's say my opponent pairs and is now showing 7 7 and I pick up a card like a J, so now statistically, I am ahead with a Jack low with 3 cards to come. Normally I bet here since I am ahead and it is harder for my opponent to fill out his hand. More than likely, he will call. (Should I not bet here?)

Now on 5th Street, let's say my opponent picks up a 10, showing 7 7 10 and I pick up a 9, so I've completed my hand with a jack low, but my opponent is possibly drawing to a better hand.

Absent any information about my opponent, would you advocate
1) check-calling
2) bet-calling a raise
3) bet-fold to a raise
4) check-fold

I usually do 1) or 2), depending on my stack- but I'd love to hear different people's theory on this. I go back and forth on this. When I have a good read on my opponent, I have a good feeling on my EV and whether I should bet on 5th, but absent of that, I am basically flipping coins.

I would love to hear the cardchat's members take on this.
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

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1) Bet/call 4th. We're quite happy when our opponent folds and gives us the pot immediately as a draw to a JT isn't a big favorite over even a hand like T5_77, and villain will sometimes give up. However, in the unlikely event we're raised by a legit 3 card draw, its only a small mistake.

2) Check/call. His draw to a T is a favorite over our hand, unless villain has two pair. And even when villain has two pair, a free card doesn't hurt us all that bad. And giving villain a shot to bluff at it when he's a 3:1 dog is pretty enticing.

Learn to use this:

http://www.propokertools.com/simulator/razzSimulationEditor.jsp
 
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bilgert

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Thanks c9h- I forgot about that link. It's great. I used it a long time ago, but really should get back to using it more often,as it answered my question perfectly.

By 5th street, absent a good read on my opponent.the odds are stacked like this:

Razz Simulation
600,000 trials (Randomized)
Hand Pot equity Wins Ties
**77T 37.54% 225,168 112
5-5-TJ9 62.46% 374,720 112

So, assuming a full table of 8 and in my case, a .25/ .50- .05 ante and assuming I have bet/call(4th), check/call(5th), the pot by 5th street has at least $1.40 and at most $2.40, so if I check call all the way to 7th street, I'm just about getting (or nearly getting) proper odds.

On the flip side, if you have something like 5-6-7 in the hole and I pick up the 7 and a 10 on 4th and 5th respectively, are you raising on 5th to represent two tiny cards in the hole? That's my typical MO.
 
c9h13no3

c9h13no3

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On the flip side, if you have something like 5-6-7 in the hole and I pick up the 7 and a 10 on 4th and 5th respectively, are you raising on 5th to represent two tiny cards in the hole? That's my typical MO.
Don't really get what you're asking here...
 
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bilgert

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What I mean is on the flip side, I am now betting against this hand (3 5) 10 J 9 and I'm holding (5 6) 7 7 10. On 5th Street if my opponent bets into me, should I reraise back?
 
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bilgert

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Touche! It's nice to see the math/statistics back my instinct.
 
spiderman637

spiderman637

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Watch the cards that show

If you have 9 high and the other player has something lower showing for a draw you are pretty much drawing dead. Also, unlike Stud HiLo you can have Any card as the high 10, J, etc as long as it is the lowest high of the 5 cards. So if the other player is showing J Q and you have a 10 and it is being checked down then Bet to force them out. What is showing is just as important to play as what is not.

Otherwise just stick to hands where you are 7 or lower and the other players show 8 or above.
 
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