ranges, ranges and more ranges; why i'm so bad at poker (possible tl;dr)

so basically I've done a bit of work and thought about the ranges I should be using against regs. all ranges assume effectives of 100bb and are against average regulars at my limit (25nl 6m).

its also assumed that these ranges aren't for all the time, they're just for sometimes/balance (in spots).

I've probably misapplied the thought process behind this, so I figured I'd post them up to get opinions on what to change and why; and hopefully start a discussion.

I can post my reasoning for whatever if asked but the majority of it should be pretty obvious/simple.

Well, it is to me.

Range 1: Depolarised OOP 3bet

Range 2: Polarised IP 3bet

Range 3: Polarised Squeeze

Range 4: 3bet Flatting IP

Range 5: 3bet Flatting OOP

most look reasonable, you're on the right tracks, i'm on the side that says 3betting small pocket pairs is pretty much horseshit altogether (exaggerating a little) so i never really do it at FR and 6m unless im definitely 5bet shoving when 4bet, i think most good players i've talked to tend to agree with this, it's not exactly terrible and some good people still do it so its kinda whatever do it if you like just the majority of people don't mainly just because any suited junk is gonna play infinitely better postflop imo.

your depolarised range would be better if you 3bet more of the suited broadways instead of the unsuited ones.

On the last one add some AJs KJs etc stuff, if youre calling 98s you mayaswel call them too.

also squeeze one looks a bit all over the place but aslong as u know what u want to call and 3bet below that its whatever fine.

now, I'm having real problems creating a decent 4bet range. I used to go by Range 7, because of the fact regs in my games pretty much never flat 4bets with any regularity, so imo blockers > pretty shit.

with consideration and discussion with other forum members my mind has changed a little since regs in my games have 4bet ranges like Range 8, including more pretty stuff in the case they do get flatted.

sigh, I dunno.

Range 6: 5bet Shoving



Range 7: 4bet OOP/Weak IP 1



Range 8: 4bet OOP/Weak IP 2

4bet with blockers

all this stuff is like good to have a basic understanding of creating ranges etc, but i wouldn't spend so much time worrying about it, people always think that all the money is in 3bet/4betting etc but it's really not, not even close. Everyone plays pretty decent in general with their 4bet 5bet ranges etc to the point where most people don't make big mistakes regularly and if they do its just that they 4bet bluff too much or something and the occasional guy will exploit it a tiny bit, or they will 3bet hands they don't need to because they are "feel" players but its not the end of the world they're just choosing worse hands than they need too, yet people always focus on 3betting as if it's going to add chunks to their WR if they do it a bit better, or that 3betting a lot is essential to having a big red line and that is where the $ are. It'd be much better to just focus on postflop stuff, playing better in 3bet pots or something that makes you hand read better would be more beneficial cause preflop stuff is pretty solved, postflop is where everyone sucks.

postflop stuff is next just want to get this sorted, the main focus of this at the beginning was the depolarised 3bet range because thats where a lot of regs are going to make mistakes, and mistakes = me making money.

figured I'd just post the rest to see if I have any massive outstanding leaks/problems tbh, and if it helps other people even better!

What do you mean the depolarised 3bet range is where regs are going to make mistakes?

regs assume we're 3betting a polarised range, and so flat a fair bit IP. if we have a depolarised value range instead of a polarised range weighted towards bluffs like we're 'supposed' to have, then the regs are making mistakes by flatting like JTo/KJ/99 etc IP

hmm i don't think we're "supposed" to have a polarised range, but yeh you're right 3betting a depolarised range will work well vs guys who do call a lot of 3bets IP. Basically whats new if they don't fold to 3bets, 3bet for value. If they do 3bet them with more crap, now postflop!

Interesting thread, good stuff 9k, good luck with the different ranges

sorry guys about pictures, they dissapeared while editing and i'm unable to put them back on myself.. I've been told to report it so hopefully itll be rectified before you see this but yeah.

more opinions would be nice though!

Subbing to find out when they're back up.

Cool thread, my 3-bet ranges and stuff could do with a lot of work so this discussion will probably help my game a ton.

As it stands I normally go:

OOP 3-bet = Merged range (like 9K mentioned people are more likely to flat IP)
IP 3-bet = I'm trying to stick to a polarised range here, unless it is vs a fish but I'm never sure when to flat OTB or when to 3-bet my suited connectors. Should I apply a range here so I'm flatting some and 3-betting some?
4-bet = I'll 4-bet AQs/AJs/KQs+ depending on who 3-bet me, possibly suited connectors as well but I don't really have a defined range here, is that a leak?

For the benefit of newbies (myself) could somebody type out or stove screenie ranges on polarised, de-polarised and merged....would be very much appreciated

thanks D'willius!

Subbing. Right along stuff I am thinking about. 3 betting and dealing with 3 bettors had been something I have been concentrating on lately, among other things.. Interesting to read Acky's thought about the 3 bet/4 bet and your bottom line.

Ackynit believes preflop is already so solved more money is to be made postflop that preflop imo.

he's right, but having a solid preflop game helps your postflop game immensely (he taught me that)

For me and others;

http://www.pokerstrategy.com/forum/thread.php?threadid=183286

defines polarized, depolarized and merged ranges. Helps, but not as definitive as anyone would like.

Id be interested to see how these change vs regs and fish. I imagine youre going to say 3-bet a lot more value hands vs fish?

Agree with Acky about not 3 betting small pp but why did you include 22-55 in your 5 bet shove range when you said you'd prefer blockers?

Also whats 3bet flatting OOP mean?

range for flatting 3bets OOP, figured that one would be pretty easy

22-55 is in my 5bet shove range because they're the hands that do best vs his calling range, along with A2-A5s..

OMGITSOVER9K said:

range for flatting 3bets OOP, figured that one would be pretty easy
.

Click to expand...

wow its early.. lol

what do you think a standard 5bet calling range looks like? AQo+/AQs+/QQ+?

AK/QQ+ imo, people don't call off AQ in my games

OMGITSOVER9K said:

regs assume we're 3betting a polarised range, and so flat a fair bit IP. if we have a depolarised value range instead of a polarised range weighted towards bluffs like we're 'supposed' to have, then the regs are making mistakes by flatting like JTo/KJ/99 etc IP

Click to expand...

we dont really have to do one or the other the whole time, you can take the top of your flatting range and 3bet in spots if you think they will adjust by calling more.

well yeah its gonna be reg dependent, if they fold a lot then polarise weighted towards bluffs etc.. this is just to deal with the average reg who flats IP a bunch here

yea but what im saying is people arent static, the same opponent can start a session folding like 95% to 3bets and end up folding 40%

I think if regs adjust it'll be a over a longer period than one session, and I'll notice when we get to SD from time to time if he's adjusted at all or started 4betting me more % etc etc.