Range of defending SB & BB

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rehanov

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what is ur range of defending blinds ( ofcourse that means u r always out of position)

i know it depend if the raiser on the button or the cut off or UTG
but i mean on average here

and ur range widen if it multi way or tighten up ?
 
Che

Che

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what is ur range of defending blinds ( ofcourse that means u r always out of position)

i know it depend if the raiser on the button or the cut off or UTG
but i mean on average here

and ur range widen if it multi way or tighten up ?

Never defend the blind in NL cash game where the blind is unchanged unless your hand figures to be superior to the one dude from LP trying to seal. I don't know if he's trying to steal your little insignificant money from any of the blinds.

Your pocket cards has got to have: big-cards, suited and connected
(AA, KK, QQ, JJ, TT, 99, 88, AJs, AQs, AKs, AQo, and AKo)

With AA and AK you can attack his entire stack if you 3bet in such a way as to use stack leverage and force him to fold or shove. There's no calling for him and see any flop to reevaluate.
 
IPlay

IPlay

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Che, you could save yourself a lot of typing by just copy and pasting "Wait for da nutz" in every thread.
 
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braveslice

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what is ur range of defending blinds

Your question is way too vague and complex to answer anything to it. Also it's very difficult, I could also add that my skill lvl as a NL10 player is so bad that I kinda guess what hands to play. Basically you play all hands you think you can make profit :p Don't forget 3bets.
 
Che

Che

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Che, you could save yourself a lot of typing by just copy and pasting "Wait for da nutz" in every thread.

Well, if you want to defend your insignificant sb/bb that is 1/200 or 1/100 of the effective by my guest. Get involved with sub-premium hand just OOP and see what happens when you flop something. If your hand is good enough for raising OOP, definitely cannot defend the blinds. But since you don't know such things you're allowed to make mistakes. We understand.
 
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sarniack

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First of all, don't listen to Che ;)

There are of course a lot of factors, but I will leave player patterns reading, stats etc. and try to analyse only the ranges that are kind of starting point for me. Normally people open 2.5 - 3BB, so I am assuming that we are talking about such open, but of course if it is smaller or bigger, you have to adjust (my range will be tighter, when somebody opens 4-5BB, because odds are not that good anymore).

In general you want to mix your top hands with some bluffs, preferably suited and connected hands and call with other middling hands. You also want to 3bet more when facing an open from cut off or button, because they will open pretty wide.

In SB I tend to 3bet or fold my whole range vs late positions like CO or BTN (my range, not all hands, so: all pocket pairs, suited broadway cards, suited connectors, even as low as 67s), because stealing is much more probable and I am not getting very good price to call. The earlier the open is, the tighter my range is with less hands 3betting and more calling. Vs UTG I will 3bet only premium hands like AA, KK, AKs, AQs and some bluffs like T9s, 98s and call with high preferably suited cards and pocket pairs like 77+ or 88+. Then the later the villlain position is, the more hands I add to that range.

In BB I have much better price to call, so I will call with most of my range for each position (this is important: not most of the hands, but most of the range) and my range there is pretty wide. Vs villain on SB open it is like wild 70-80% range with same strategy of 3betting (strong hands for value + weaker suited connectors for bluff). Because the range is so wide, most hands are calls (I want to balance value and bluffs, to not bluff too much). The earlier the position, the tighter the range will be to probably like 30-40% max vs UTG and somewhere between for other positions (still calling with most of the range).

The important thing to remember here is that when defending, you will have to give up often, but when you hit a hand, your implied odds are sky rocketing imho ;)

There is of course much more to it, because a lot depends on the table dynamics. When I play micro stakes (which I mostly do) the games are passive, so I can play wide and be more aggressive, but when there is a lot of 3betting and aggression, I will play tighter. Ranges I use are mostly based on various books and online courses. They work for me, but this is always debatable, so just try to get some starting point and then see what works for you.

P.S. Despite some opinions on the forum, it is important to work on your preflop game and it is something that you can learn off the table much easier than postflop game. The ranges can be very specific preflop and it is worth putting some time and thoughts into it. For me it was a game changer.
 
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Two6JJ

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Depends on who is raising first in but you are going to want to defend a pretty wide range unless it is a multi way.
 
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braveslice

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Depends on who is raising first in but you are going to want to defend a pretty wide range unless it is a multi way.

Yeah from BB you can defend very wide especially late position opens, but not early opens. Also SB is different, imo, play like a semi nit there (3betting advice from sarniak was good, but just don't over do it) because if you play nanos and you call from SB the BB will call too and you are out of position against 2 players.

Multiway you can call also very wide imo from big blind (not SB) but with different set of hands, those that flop hands you are ready to play for stacks. Hint top pair medium kicker is not one of those.
 
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rehanov

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First of all, don't listen to Che ;)

There are of course a lot of factors, but I will leave player patterns reading, stats etc. and try to analyse only the ranges that are kind of starting point for me. Normally people open 2.5 - 3BB, so I am assuming that we are talking about such open, but of course if it is smaller or bigger, you have to adjust (my range will be tighter, when somebody opens 4-5BB, because odds are not that good anymore).

In general you want to mix your top hands with some bluffs, preferably suited and connected hands and call with other middling hands. You also want to 3bet more when facing an open from cut off or button, because they will open pretty wide.

In SB I tend to 3bet or fold my whole range vs late positions like CO or BTN (my range, not all hands, so: all pocket pairs, suited broadway cards, suited connectors, even as low as 67s), because stealing is much more probable and I am not getting very good price to call. The earlier the open is, the tighter my range is with less hands 3betting and more calling. Vs UTG I will 3bet only premium hands like AA, KK, AKs, AQs and some bluffs like T9s, 98s and call with high preferably suited cards and pocket pairs like 77+ or 88+. Then the later the villlain position is, the more hands I add to that range.

In BB I have much better price to call, so I will call with most of my range for each position (this is important: not most of the hands, but most of the range) and my range there is pretty wide. Vs villain on SB open it is like wild 70-80% range with same strategy of 3betting (strong hands for value + weaker suited connectors for bluff). Because the range is so wide, most hands are calls (I want to balance value and bluffs, to not bluff too much). The earlier the position, the tighter the range will be to probably like 30-40% max vs UTG and somewhere between for other positions (still calling with most of the range).

The important thing to remember here is that when defending, you will have to give up often, but when you hit a hand, your implied odds are sky rocketing imho ;)

There is of course much more to it, because a lot depends on the table dynamics. When I play micro stakes (which I mostly do) the games are passive, so I can play wide and be more aggressive, but when there is a lot of 3betting and aggression, I will play tighter. Ranges I use are mostly based on various books and online courses. They work for me, but this is always debatable, so just try to get some starting point and then see what works for you.

P.S. Despite some opinions on the forum, it is important to work on your preflop game and it is something that you can learn off the table much easier than postflop game. The ranges can be very specific preflop and it is worth putting some time and thoughts into it. For me it was a game changer.

thanks for ur time writing this
i like ur organized thoughts
 
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feecg

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I prefer to use high pocket pairs or high suited cards, including almost all broadways. As small blind and big blinds are both less profitable in the long term, I think those are the only hands playable in these spots. Then, if you catch some of these cards and hit the nuts on the board, you will earn a lot of chips probably, since you only need to check to get a very probable c-bet. Defending blinds with lower cards is a very hard spot to play, and donkey betting will only work against few players.
 
crimsonblur

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Some nice suited connectors, really any suited connectors and pairs I will play, depending on the bet size and the number of players in the hand I will defend with some suited hands like K6, K7 suited.

If the bet size is large then my range obviously tightens up.
 
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marakhovskii

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what is ur range of defending blinds ( ofcourse that means u r always out of position)

i know it depend if the raiser on the button or the cut off or UTG
but i mean on average here

and ur range widen if it multi way or tighten up ?

The SB & BB protection range gives you a unique opportunity to play hands that are far ahead of pocket aces - this is certainly a risk, but in case of your victory it's worth it :).
 
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Dmurff

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First of all, don't listen to Che ;)

There are of course a lot of factors, but I will leave player patterns reading, stats etc. and try to analyse only the ranges that are kind of starting point for me. Normally people open 2.5 - 3BB, so I am assuming that we are talking about such open, but of course if it is smaller or bigger, you have to adjust (my range will be tighter, when somebody opens 4-5BB, because odds are not that good anymore).

In general you want to mix your top hands with some bluffs, preferably suited and connected hands and call with other middling hands. You also want to 3bet more when facing an open from cut off or button, because they will open pretty wide.

In SB I tend to 3bet or fold my whole range vs late positions like CO or BTN (my range, not all hands, so: all pocket pairs, suited broadway cards, suited connectors, even as low as 67s), because stealing is much more probable and I am not getting very good price to call. The earlier the open is, the tighter my range is with less hands 3betting and more calling. Vs UTG I will 3bet only premium hands like AA, KK, AKs, AQs and some bluffs like T9s, 98s and call with high preferably suited cards and pocket pairs like 77+ or 88+. Then the later the villlain position is, the more hands I add to that range.

In BB I have much better price to call, so I will call with most of my range for each position (this is important: not most of the hands, but most of the range) and my range there is pretty wide. Vs villain on SB open it is like wild 70-80% range with same strategy of 3betting (strong hands for value + weaker suited connectors for bluff). Because the range is so wide, most hands are calls (I want to balance value and bluffs, to not bluff too much). The earlier the position, the tighter the range will be to probably like 30-40% max vs UTG and somewhere between for other positions (still calling with most of the range).

The important thing to remember here is that when defending, you will have to give up often, but when you hit a hand, your implied odds are sky rocketing imho ;)

There is of course much more to it, because a lot depends on the table dynamics. When I play micro stakes (which I mostly do) the games are passive, so I can play wide and be more aggressive, but when there is a lot of 3betting and aggression, I will play tighter. Ranges I use are mostly based on various books and online courses. They work for me, but this is always debatable, so just try to get some starting point and then see what works for you.

P.S. Despite some opinions on the forum, it is important to work on your preflop game and it is something that you can learn off the table much easier than postflop game. The ranges can be very specific preflop and it is worth putting some time and thoughts into it. For me it was a game changer.

Great reply!
 
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rushdaman

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The blinds would have to be HUGE like atleast a 1/4 of my stack to play a weak hand on a 3x blind pre-flop raise. I let people steal the blinds with ease during the 1st stages of blinds because its worthless to play with horrible cards. So yeah not a big fan of protecting the blinds. Play good cards and read your opponent.
 
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Rational Madman

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I don't defend my blinds, I pay the blinds to then freely fold 5-7 hands in my 9-max table so I'm happy to fold them to a large pre-flop raise. :)

Only fish 'defend blinds'. This is called position-based aggression and if you are going to relate position to aggression you should be most aggro preflop in LATER position as you can much easier bluff once the card shows but I am not an advocate of position-based betting at all. Bet with the cards and your reads on players, position only matters in terms of later position being better at the flop and turn (at river being later position matters very little because a clever opponent is going to slowplay you so being later is irrelevant).
 
IPlay

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I don't defend my blinds, I pay the blinds to then freely fold 5-7 hands in my 9-max table so I'm happy to fold them to a large pre-flop raise. :)

Only fish 'defend blinds'. This is called position-based aggression and if you are going to relate position to aggression you should be most aggro preflop in LATER position as you can much easier bluff once the card shows but I am not an advocate of position-based betting at all. Bet with the cards and your reads on players, position only matters in terms of later position being better at the flop and turn (at river being later position matters very little because a clever opponent is going to slowplay you so being later is irrelevant).

Post of the year
 
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MountHollyDK

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My range is zero. Defending your blinds is one of the single least intelligent things you can do. There is a significant chance that your paying money to play a hand in bad position against a better starting hand.

If you got good cards, sure have at it like anywhere else. But defending your blinds - in a cash game - should NEVER happen just for the sake of defending them.

Remember folks ... once you put a dollar in the pot that dollar is no longer yours.
 
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C3H6S

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with suited conectors and jj+ defend ...A8s+...
 
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