raising with AK and hitting flop hard at 5nl

KerouacsDog

KerouacsDog

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Is betting the flop like I did here the optimal play for 5nl? This was only the 10th hand in this session, so had no reads, HUD, etc.
Am I better off long-term checking this flop(bearing in mind the flush might hit) and hoping that they might catch-up/bluff on later streets?
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HAND #1
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Full Tilt, $0.02/$0.05 NL Hold'em Cash Game, 8 Players
Hand History Converter by Stoxpoker
MP2: $5 (100 bb)
MP3: $2.50 (50 bb)
CO: $3.27 (65.4 bb)
BTN: $1.27 (25.4 bb)
Hero (SB): $5.99 (119.8 bb)
BB: $5 (100 bb)
UTG+2: $2.59 (51.8 bb)
MP1: $2.38 (47.6 bb)
Pre-Flop: Hero is SB with A♦ K♠
CO posts a dead SB, UTG+2 calls $0.05, MP1 folds, MP2 calls $0.05, MP3 folds, CO calls $0.05, BTN folds, Hero raises to $0.30, 2 folds, MP2 calls $0.25, CO calls $0.25
Flop: ($1.02) 6♣ A♣ A♠ (3 players)
Hero bets $0.60, MP2 folds, CO folds
Results: $1.02 pot ($0.06 rake)
Hero mucked A♦ K♠ (three of a kind, Aces) and won $0.96 ($0.66 net)
 
pokerman27

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Interestingly I had a similar problem yesterday with kings though the flush draw didn't come until the turn. I slowplayed my trips and allowed villain to catch up and beat me so personally I'm betting that flop every time, if I take it down there and then all well and good and if he calls against the odds and misses well I've forced him to make an error, also good. If I bet and he calls against the odds and hits I can sleep easy knowing I got my money when I was best - and if he turns over A6 or 66 it's just a cooler.
 
Stu_Ungar

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Bet this flop 100%

You would bet it if you missed!

The thing with a scary flop like this is that they either have a hand or they dont. Most likely they dont.

But lets say they hold TJ and the turn is a J, they wont put much into the pot.

However, if they hold a PP or they hold the FD and that comes in, then they will happily stack you.

So really there is no way to play this that really makes much money.

Its a scary board, most hands will not continue.

Most hands will not continue on the turn / river.

you may induce one bluff by checking but you have to balance that with the fact that if the betting gets big after your check, it may because they have hit a FH of flush and you are now beat and must fold.

Sometimes a bet here looks like a bluff there are 2 aces so you are less likely to hold an ace.. you c-bet a lot so actually betting might look weaker than checking. You may get reraised. But once you dont fold thats it for lesser hands.
 
thepokerkid123

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Bet.

I don't think this one even needs to be very opponent specific.

You've got the effective nuts which does mean the chances of another A being out there are low, but the board is paired so no one will give you credit for the A, most playes are calling any PP, flush draw or Ax for 2-3 streets.

Checking loses a lot of value, imo.
 
ddg373

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bet it

make the draws pay to hit, and be wary of the flopped boat
 
KerouacsDog

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Stu_Ungar said:
Bet this flop 100%

You would bet it if you missed!

The thing with a scary flop like this is that they either have a hand or they dont. Most likely they dont.

But lets say they hold TJ and the turn is a J, they wont put much into the pot.

However, if they hold a PP or they hold the FD and that comes in, then they will happily stack you.

So really there is no way to play this that really makes much money.

Its a scary board, most hands will not continue.

Most hands will not continue on the turn / river.

you may induce one bluff by checking but you have to balance that with the fact that if the betting gets big after your check, it may because they have hit a FH of flush and you are now beat and must fold.

Sometimes a bet here looks like a bluff there are 2 aces so you are less likely to hold an ace.. you c-bet a lot so actually betting might look weaker than checking. You may get reraised. But once you dont fold thats it for lesser hands.
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thanks for the detailed response stu, and thanks others.

as shown I bet the flop, and will most times at this level, was just wondering if there was a different route to take to get maximum value, I dont mind them hitting the flush as long as I get the fullhouse!
 
moeraj

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the way to get maximum value for that hand is to check it to the river. Most players will not give you credit for an ace in hole if you check more than once. Of course you have to be capable of folding the hand to do that.You should never do any move 100% of the time. Change it up.
 
KerouacsDog

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moeraj said:
the way to get maximum value for that hand is to check it to the river. Most players will not give you credit for an ace in hole if you check more than once. Of course you have to be capable of folding the hand to do that.You should never do any move 100% of the time. Change it up.
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nah, checking to the river is just a terrible idea bud, big time, no value there whatsoever, that much I know.
As for changing it up/switching gears etc, not to be bigheaded, I know most of the moves from my tournament/sng play(Ive just switched to learning ring), so I wouldn't play it the same way every time, but checking to the river gains me nothing, and I could lose out on a lot of $
 
moeraj

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The only way you are going to make more money by betting that flop is if the last ace is there.Who is going to call that? The question was how to get maximum value for the hand. The question was not how is the safest way to play the hand,or at least that was what I was responding to.
 
zek

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Bet the flop. Checking it and betting hard later shows more strength than coming out firing. You also run the risk of letting someone catch the flush if you check the flop. Rarely do I check my big hands.
 
moeraj

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Sorry but if you rarely check big hands you are not getting paid enough for them. We're agreeing to disagree i guess but when you are willing to take down small pots with your best hands you are wasting them. A simple checkraise can show strength but there are few players at the micro levels I play that can give you credit for trickier plays than a simple checkraise. You can also try a moderate bet after flop and if you are called then reduce your bet. If you want to get paid you need to show weakness.
 
KerouacsDog

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moeraj said:
The only way you are going to make more money by betting that flop is if the last ace is there.Who is going to call that? The question was how to get maximum value for the hand. The question was not how is the safest way to play the hand,or at least that was what I was responding to.
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nah, definately not wanting the safest way to play the hand, i was wanting the maximum value out of the hand. and people call that flop with PP's, flush draws, even the 6, at various levels Ive played(2nl-50nl), I was just wondering if this was the normal optimal play for 5nl. thanks
 
Steveg1976

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KerouacsDog said:
thanks for the detailed response stu, and thanks others.

as shown I bet the flop, and will most times at this level, was just wondering if there was a different route to take to get maximum value, I dont mind them hitting the flush as long as I get the fullhouse!
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99 times out of 100 at 5nl the way to get the most value is simply to bet. FPS is an absolutely foolish thing to fall into.

The villians don't think about what they are doing, they don't think about what you are doing. Sometimes I think they just mash buttons. You will from time to time run into someone who may have a clue but really it isn't worth worrying about them too much as they are obvious as everyone else is just so bad.:)
 
Poker Orifice

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moeraj said:
The only way you are going to make more money by betting that flop is if the last ace is there.Who is going to call that? The question was how to get maximum value for the hand. The question was not how is the safest way to play the hand,or at least that was what I was responding to.
Click to expand...

I completely disagree (Read Stu's response above!!).
 
salim271

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moeraj said:
Sorry but if you rarely check big hands you are not getting paid enough for them. We're agreeing to disagree i guess but when you are willing to take down small pots with your best hands you are wasting them. A simple checkraise can show strength but there are few players at the micro levels I play that can give you credit for trickier plays than a simple checkraise. You can also try a moderate bet after flop and if you are called then reduce your bet. If you want to get paid you need to show weakness.
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Trips with a possible four to a flush on the board isnt a big hand. If he had A6/66 and a full boat, then thats big enough to check. 'Showing weakness' here after betting big preflop will be read as slowplaying. Checking the flop here will never pay dividends as the only thing that would bet is a boat, and draws will come along checking behind for a free card.
 
PattyR

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salim271 said:
Trips with a possible four to a flush on the board isnt a big hand. If he had A6/66 and a full boat, then thats big enough to check. 'Showing weakness' here after betting big preflop will be read as slowplaying. Checking the flop here will never pay dividends as the only thing that would bet is a boat, and draws will come along checking behind for a free card.
Click to expand...

read stu ungars response to the OP...you should bet this 100% of the time
 
dantheman91

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I always bet a board like that. But, one thing I like to do is bet like 25-40% of the pot to show weakness and sometimes people will come over the top because they think you're just trying to buy the pot.
 
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