This puzzles me.....

Shumkoolie

Shumkoolie

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http://www.boomplayer.com/en/poker-hands/Boom/19520565_54DD20B61E

The result doesn't really matter here (it's great that I won), but the way my opponents played the hand really puzzled me, and wanted to get your thoughts on this.

Player 4 - P4
Player 5 - P5
Me - Shumkoolie (in the video)

P4 raises pre, P5 calls, I overcall in late position with QJdd which plays well in position, even against multiple players and I really don't want to re-open the betting and risk getting blown off a hand that I want to see a flop with.

On the flop, P4 donk leads just over one-third pot, P5 calls, and I call. I have the second nut flush draw.

Then on the turn, I hit my flush, and now P4 checks, P5 now makes a tiny bet, about 17% of the pot ($0.30). I raise to $1.16 here to both try and build a pot, but also to protect my hand against Kx (only the K is a diamond). Perhaps I could even get a smaller flush to come along too because they may be thinking exactly the same thing I am, and they're looking to protect their hand.

Here's where I feel like I'm not sure I have the best hand. P4 calls, and now P5 who led folds. P4 leading on the flop and then check-calling the turn OOP is a play that I see quite a bit when a player hits a flush because they want to induce a bluff, which is in my mind here. At the same time, what puts doubt in my mind is that P4 played the turn so passively that I am thinking that I have the best hand here, and I'm going to shove the river for value.

The River puts a 4 flush on the board, and I'm thinking at this point, with $4.25 in the pot, and I only have $3.79 behind, my hand is good enough of the time that shoving for value is going to be profitable. I just don't feel that Kx of diamonds shows up in P4's range enough of the time, and when he checks behind, I'm almost certain I'm good. P4 check calls my shove, and he pulls up a rivered straight.

The river card was perfect for me (a 2 would have been the same as the 7) because he was chasing a gutshot straight draw on the flop, then an open-ended straight draw on the turn, then hitting on the river. Any other card and he isn't paying me off. I guess what is puzzling for me is that with a 4 flush on the river, how could my opponent NOT put me on a flush especially with my raise on the turn.

I guess that brings up two questions.
1. Am I correct in thinking that Kx (K is a diamond only) is not in P4's range enough of the time that my betting through here is the right line to take every time?
2. What is P4 thinking here???

P4 played the hand oddly.

Thoughts?????
 
TimovieMan

TimovieMan

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He did open-raise UTG, so if he has the Kd, it's likely a hand like KdKx or AxKd. Both these hands make far more sense for the way he played them than what he actually had. Both will bet the flop, and KdKx will slow down on the turn for fear of an A and with the nut flush draw. Not so sure if AxKd would slow down on the turn.


The way he played is definitely like a fish: far too loose preflop. His flop c-bet however, is acceptable as the A is a scare card that he can rep with his UTG open preflop.
On the turn: all he sees is "I haven an OESD". Level 1 thinking. The flush draw hitting doesn't seem to bother him, and pot odds is something he's never heard of, never mind RIO because of the flush.
On the river: he hit his straight and beats everything but a flush. If he's thinking at all, then the only hands that bet as strongly as you did are going to be the nuts (or second-nuts) and bluffs, and now he beats all bluffs.


Betting with the second-nuts is fine here (actually third-nuts, 4d5d trumps all), as you'll get looked up by plenty of weaker flushes, but I feel like your sizing was too large. Of course, it must've helped to make your hand look bluffy...
 
MediaBLITZ

MediaBLITZ

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He may have got tunnel vision on his draw and when it came in just thought he was money. For some reason he thought you were just repping the flush. I am most confused by him calling the river - I would have to fold that.

I agree with Tim (again) - this guy just isn't very good and you may be trying to give him too much credit for a thought out plan.
 
Shumkoolie

Shumkoolie

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He did open-raise UTG, so if he has the Kd, it's likely a hand like KdKx or AxKd. Both these hands make far more sense for the way he played them than what he actually had.

Absolutely, I totally agree. The only hand I really only lose to here is any hand with the Kd, and with the raise pre-flop and the c-bet, the only hands I really am ever up against where I'm in huge trouble is KTdd or K9dd because I don't think any worse hands are raising pre. But that's SO narrow a range that if I happen to run into it, I tip my hat and say gg.

Thinking further about it, I wonder if I played my hand correctly or not because a lot of good players are going to do EXACTLY that with a nut draw and I'll be stacking off some of the time.

But is it more incorrect to leave value out there given that it's Zoom in a random pool of players where you're not going to have a read on your opponent's tendencies??? I'm on the fence here. (only because there have been times where I've stacked off, but with the 2nd nuts, it's less likely that's going to happen).

I agree with Tim (again) - this guy just isn't very good and you may be trying to give him too much credit for a thought out plan.

I think in a random Zoom pool, you have to not give your opponents respect, especially when you have a made hand. Sometimes you'll just run into it, and you just have to lick your wounds and move on.

Am I overthinking it though? I feel like I'm trying really hard to see how I played this incorrectly.
 
MediaBLITZ

MediaBLITZ

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Okay, how did you play it incorrectly?
 
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