Putting opponent on a range

I'm looking for some advice on how people effectively place an opponent on a range preflop, and then how you continue with that range into the flop/turn/river etc.

So, I understand the general idea of the preflop range. Say villain is UTG and open raises; compare that to an open raise from the BU - I see here that there is a much wider range the open raiser from the BU will have (maybe 30%).

What I struggle with, is how to transfer that into the flop. I'm basically asking, how do you use the flop to inform your postflop decisions by placing them on a range. Because, to me, at the moment, I seem to just pluck hands from the air that I think they could have when the flop comes.
I really struggle to do this when playing - do you simply just remove hands you don't think they will continue with and then use that to help make a betting decision?

I'm not really sure my question makes sense so I aologize if it does not.

It's not easy - it's a puzzle

johnoman said:

I'm looking for some advice on how people effectively place an opponent on a range preflop, and then how you continue with that range into the flop/turn/river etc.

So, I understand the general idea of the preflop range. Say villain is UTG and open raises; compare that to an open raise from the BU - I see here that there is a much wider range the open raiser from the BU will have (maybe 30%).

What I struggle with, is how to transfer that into the flop. I'm basically asking, how do you use the flop to inform your postflop decisions by placing them on a range. Because, to me, at the moment, I seem to just pluck hands from the air that I think they could have when the flop comes.
I really struggle to do this when playing - do you simply just remove hands you don't think they will continue with and then use that to help make a betting decision?

I'm not really sure my question makes sense so I aologize if it does not.

Click to expand...

Ranges are not easy - putting an opponent on a range is like solving a puzzle.

BUT the good news is the puzzle is finite. There are only 52 cards in the deck and there are only so many combinations. Sounds easier right?

So you are on the right track. The first time I play an opponent I really have no idea what their range is. But to be conservative I do give them lots of credit. Do I have AA in my pocket? Well maybe - just maybe they do.

Ok forget about AA. Back to ranges...

If they are c-betting on the flop then that doesn't tell you much about their hole cards. But sometimes their betsize does. Why are they betting so much on a dry flop? Are they betting to get me to fold? Maybe my little pair is good here?

I re-evaluate their range on the turn and sometimes the river. This of course depends on their behavior on the turn and river.

And of course previous betting behavior and hole-cards at showdown from that player.

I hope this helps.

johnoman said:

What I struggle with, is how to transfer that into the flop. I'm basically asking, how do you use the flop to inform your postflop decisions by placing them on a range. Because, to me, at the moment, I seem to just pluck hands from the air that I think they could have when the flop comes.
I really struggle to do this when playing - do you simply just remove hands you don't think they will continue with and then use that to help make a betting decision?

I'm not really sure my question makes sense so I aologize if it does not.

Click to expand...

You make an assumption about how villain plays his prefloprange on the given flop.

How and what is villain betting here, if we checkraise what is he defending. Translate that range on to the turn and rince and repeat.
By the river you should have a rough idea of what villain has still in his range.

Now this depends a lot on the player and his strategy you are facing, alltough you can make general assumptions about the playerpool and its tendencies.

Poker_Mike said:

Ranges are not easy - putting an opponent on a range is like solving a puzzle.

BUT the good news is the puzzle is finite. There are only 52 cards in the deck and there are only so many combinations. Sounds easier right?

So you are on the right track. The first time I play an opponent I really have no idea what their range is. But to be conservative I do give them lots of credit. Do I have AA in my pocket? Well maybe - just maybe they do.

Ok forget about AA. Back to ranges...

If they are c-betting on the flop then that doesn't tell you much about their hole cards. But sometimes their betsize does. Why are they betting so much on a dry flop? Are they betting to get me to fold? Maybe my little pair is good here?

I re-evaluate their range on the turn and sometimes the river. This of course depends on their behavior on the turn and river.

And of course previous betting behavior and hole-cards at showdown from that player.

I hope this helps.

Click to expand...

LevySystem said:

You make an assumption about how villain plays his prefloprange on the given flop.

How and what is villain betting here, if we checkraise what is he defending. Translate that range on to the turn and rince and repeat.
By the river you should have a rough idea of what villain has still in his range.

Now this depends a lot on the player and his strategy you are facing, alltough you can make general assumptions about the playerpool and its tendencies.

Click to expand...

Both answers here make a lot of sense - thank you for the replies!

It's good to see if it something that is clearly not an overnight learned technique

johnoman said:

Both answers here make a lot of sense - thank you for the replies!

It's good to see if it something that is clearly not an overnight learned technique

Click to expand...

Yeah, to get a feel of it I would start doing this of-table, because counting the exact number of combinations will take some time. With some practice you will be doing this almost subconsciously.

LevySystem said:

Yeah, to get a feel of it I would start doing this of-table, because counting the exact number of combinations will take some time. With some practice you will be doing this almost subconsciously.

Click to expand...

When you talk about combos, how do you incorporate this into building a range?

Do you mean if we have pocket aces there is only one possible combo for villain to hold pocket aces provided there are none on the flop?

I have the same concerns, I read somewhere at first pick one player and watch them, get a read on them. Then move on to the next and do the same. It is helping me so far.
But also I find this works well in higher stacks cash games. Free rolls especially in the beginning and lower cash games there are no rules. Fly by the seat of your pants.

As you say it is taking out hands they won’t continue with and say preflop they are calling in position you can take away the hands they would 3bet with a certain amount of the time. It all depends if they are more aggressive or not

johnoman said:

When you talk about combos, how do you incorporate this into building a range?

Do you mean if we have pocket aces there is only one possible combo for villain to hold pocket aces provided there are none on the flop?

Click to expand...

No, that is the point. FE any pocket pair (hand) has 6 possible Combinations. UTG open vs Bb defend: Let's say board comes K82 rainbow. UTG still has 6 combos of AA but only 3 combos of KK, AK 12 combos 3 of wich are suited ones and Then you would do this with his entire range.

Betting is an important source of information for both you and your opponent. place bets, raise, and think about how your opponent would lead with strong cards or bluff. Sometimes you can tell from the bets whether the opponent wants to get a call

johnoman said:

Both answers here make a lot of sense - thank you for the replies!

It's good to see if it something that is clearly not an overnight learned technique

Click to expand...

Yes.

And - when I'm not in a hand I spend a lot of time watching the way my opponents play each other and what cards they show.

I don't have to spend my own money to build ranges for the table.

This is harder to do when multi-tabling 8 tables lol

johnoman said:

I'm looking for some advice on how people effectively place an opponent on a range preflop, and then how you continue with that range into the flop/turn/river etc.

So, I understand the general idea of the preflop range. Say villain is UTG and open raises; compare that to an open raise from the BU - I see here that there is a much wider range the open raiser from the BU will have (maybe 30%).

What I struggle with, is how to transfer that into the flop. I'm basically asking, how do you use the flop to inform your postflop decisions by placing them on a range. Because, to me, at the moment, I seem to just pluck hands from the air that I think they could have when the flop comes.
I really struggle to do this when playing - do you simply just remove hands you don't think they will continue with and then use that to help make a betting decision?

I'm not really sure my question makes sense so I aologize if it does not.

Click to expand...

Hey Johno,

There are many tools which can help with visualizing this. The most cost effective one is Flopzilla and for free options PokerStove is the most popular choice hands down.

With these tools you can actually see the ranges on the screen in front of you which is super helpful and assists the mind in grasping the concept.

Here's a great video splitsuit made on how to use Flopzilla

Once you get some practice with that, then it's just a matter of doing the exercises over and over. You can get people preflop ranges by looking at starting hand charts (or by using a HUD if you have that)

Here's a video to help you get the feel for post flop ranges too. Hope it helps!

johnoman said:

I'm looking for some advice on how people effectively place an opponent on a range preflop, and then how you continue with that range into the flop/turn/river etc.

So, I understand the general idea of the preflop range. Say villain is UTG and open raises; compare that to an open raise from the BU - I see here that there is a much wider range the open raiser from the BU will have (maybe 30%).

What I struggle with, is how to transfer that into the flop. I'm basically asking, how do you use the flop to inform your postflop decisions by placing them on a range. Because, to me, at the moment, I seem to just pluck hands from the air that I think they could have when the flop comes.
I really struggle to do this when playing - do you simply just remove hands you don't think they will continue with and then use that to help make a betting decision?

I'm not really sure my question makes sense so I aologize if it does not.

Click to expand...

BTW JohnO - you're on the right website for this question....free course.

https://www.cardschat.com/forum/learning-poker-57/thinking-in-ranges-day-3-course-455450/

Poker_Mike said:

BTW JohnO - you're on the right website for this question....free course.

https://www.cardschat.com/forum/learning-poker-57/thinking-in-ranges-day-3-course-455450/

Click to expand...

Yes! I've actually just stumbled across this! Thanks very much

Evan Jarvis said:

Hey Johno,

There are many tools which can help with visualizing this. The most cost effective one is Flopzilla and for free options PokerStove is the most popular choice hands down.

With these tools you can actually see the ranges on the screen in front of you which is super helpful and assists the mind in grasping the concept.

Here's a great video splitsuit made on how to use Flopzilla
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0_9ZZa22pM

Once you get some practice with that, then it's just a matter of doing the exercises over and over. You can get people preflop ranges by looking at starting hand charts (or by using a HUD if you have that)

Here's a video to help you get the feel for post flop ranges too. Hope it helps!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lj9DnuoeckE

Click to expand...

Thanks for this Evan - I hadn't heard of PokerStove; will definitely check this out.

I have been using Equilab, is this also useful too?

Equilab is the one I meant to mention. Pokerstove was the original software which I'm not sure if you can still get. I think my... late night spell check led me to write pokerstove lol

Evan Jarvis said:

Equilab is the one I meant to mention. Pokerstove was the original software which I'm not sure if you can still get. I think my... late night spell check led me to write pokerstove lol

Click to expand...

No problem - thank you!