Preflop - 3/4/5betting ranges + flatting ranges

DaReKa

DaReKa

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I feel lost with this aspect of my game. I never know which type of hands are good for flatting 3bets in or out of position, and my 4bet range is too narrow vs wide 3betters. I can't figure out if I should flat or 4bet with things like JJ vs a wide 3bet since I will be folding vs most 5bets. I need to understand my opponents' ranges in these spots better...

I'm not looking for specific ranges, I'm just interested in the thought process used for creating a range for 4betting, and flatting 3bets, so I can start working on my preflop game.

Any advice?
 
easypickns

easypickns

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If I enter the hand I normally 3 bet, I rarely limp/call unless on the button or in position. If I have a premium hand and someone has 3 bet I will 4 bet usually.
 
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jj20002

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AK, JJ, TT i flat never 4bet, 99 and lower pairs fold, AQ or worse fold other speculative hands fold

also depends on your stack and the villain, and the position, but basically what i do, but time to time i use to 4bet i hand like JJ or TT, but in some cases,

if i´m shortstack i could shove instead of 4bet, but it´ll depend in a lot of circumstances
 
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RickAversion

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3-bet means if it's 1/2 NL, you raise to $6?
 
Jblocher1

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Ladybugger said:
3-bet means if it's 1/2 NL, you raise to $6?
Click to expand...

No. A three bet pre flop is when you raise a raiser. For example UTG.... Raises, and we have AK on the button, we three bet...
 
Jblocher1

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As for your question..... It all comes down to your opponents ranges.

Lets say a solid TAG raises from UTG.... Our three betting range needs to have more premiums in it than if it were a LAG raising out of UTG. There Is not a "correct" three or 4 bet range. It's very situational and depends on the players at your table.

When someone raises from the button... Since we can expect them to do that with a wide range of hands, we can 3 bet them with a wider range of hands.

Basically it's a combination of who your playing against and position which is a major factor. Hope this helps

As for flatting ranges.... In that spot you noted with JJ... You shouldn't 4 bet, because you stated that you get 5 bet often and then you need to fold. It comes down to the likelihood of him just flatting your four bet. When he does that, he practically removes QQ/KK/AA from his range unless he's either really good or really bad, that's where table dynamics and reads come in. So if its likely he 3 bets only premiums.... Then 4 betting has no point because your likely getting 5 bet, therefore making flatting the 3 bet with the JJ pretty profitable
 
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DaReKa

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Well, I am mostly thinking about situations where my opening range is very wide and my opponent's 3bet range is very wide as a result. If I open 40% on the button I need to defend a lot to prevent getting exploited by the wide 3bettor, and I think by having a very narrow 4betting range and wide calling range, I'm way too easy to play against.

I watched John A's video on 4bet bluffing (I think it was one of his vids) , so right now I've been bluffing with lower suited Aces, Kings, and Queens with a value range of JJ+/AK. If they are bad/spew money postflop, I flat with more value hands.

My biggest problem is having a wide flatting range vs a wide 3bet. It's hard to play big pots with the marginal parts of my range. Mostly when I miss.. I have been doing a lot of work on this the past few days though, and I think I am playing better..

I've also been thinking about when to 5bet bluff and what to do it with. I have attempted it once and got stacked with KQ vs AQ. But I still think it will be useful in the preflop battles I'm anticipating with my new aggressive preflop strategies. I think suited Aces are going to be my go-to 5 bet bluff hand.. but I'm also considering small pairs.
 
Jblocher1

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DaReKa said:
Well, I am mostly thinking about situations where my opening range is very wide and my opponent's 3bet range is very wide as a result. If I open 40% on the button I need to defend a lot to prevent getting exploited by the wide 3bettor, and I think by having a very narrow 4betting range and wide calling range, I'm way too easy to play against.

I watched John A's video on 4bet bluffing (I think it was one of his vids) , so right now I've been bluffing with lower suited Aces, Kings, and Queens with a value range of JJ+/AK. If they are bad/spew money postflop, I flat with more value hands.

My biggest problem is having a wide flatting range vs a wide 3bet. It's hard to play big pots with the marginal parts of my range. Mostly when I miss.. I have been doing a lot of work on this the past few days though, and I think I am playing better..

I've also been thinking about when to 5bet bluff and what to do it with. I have attempted it once and got stacked with KQ vs AQ. But I still think it will be useful in the preflop battles I'm anticipating with my new aggressive preflop strategies. I think suited Aces are going to be my go-to 5 bet bluff hand.. but I'm also considering small pairs.
Click to expand...

5 bet bluffs are pretty rare as far as I have seen. I wouldn't advise at low stakes
 
John A

John A

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I wouldn't worry about 5-bet bluffing until you get to 400nl+ honestly.

I think I have a pretty good break down of 3 and 4 bet ranges in the free ebook. I assume you've read that. I've made a lot of videos on this over the years, so I'm not sure which one you watched, but the quickest hint I can say is: flat with a lot of your value hands against aggressive 3-bettors, and 4-bet hands you plan to fold to 5-bets. Everything is situational of course as well, but this is the simplest general approach that works well.
 
DaReKa

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Jblocher1 said:
5 bet bluffs are pretty rare as far as I have seen. I wouldn't advise at low stakes
Click to expand...
Well, I don't plan on it much, but plenty of people do adjust to wide 3bettors with light 4 bets, and I want to be able adjust with a 5bet bluff range when it happens. A lot of what I want to change about my game is make it more frustrating to play against me and I think this type of play is gonna do that. I wanna be able to adjust to people as soon as they try to adjust to me.

But it's not a major concern, I think understanding how to 5bet bluff profitably will likely come as I get a better understanding of more vital preflop dynamics.
John A said:
I wouldn't worry about 5-bet bluffing until you get to 400nl+ honestly.

I think I have a pretty good break down of 3 and 4 bet ranges in the free ebook. I assume you've read that. I've made a lot of videos on this over the years, so I'm not sure which one you watched, but the quickest hint I can say is: flat with a lot of your value hands against aggressive 3-bettors, and 4-bet hands you plan to fold to 5-bets. Everything is situational of course as well, but this is the simplest general approach that works well.
Click to expand...
Yeah, I am working on standard 3betting, but I do something more like the quasi range strategy vs certain opponents.

In the bolded part, shouldn't I at least have some value range to go along with that? I don't want to 4bet fold too frequently.
stately7 said:
This thread from early 2013 is pretty useful DaReKa...

https://www.cardschat.com/forum/cash-games-11/preflop-stacking-ranges-219022/
Click to expand...
That post is awesome! Thanks.
 
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baudib1

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DaReka:
In order to know how to respond to 3-bets you need to know what kind of hands your opponents are 3-betting and what their stackoff range is.
 
John A

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DaReKa said:
Yeah, I am working on standard 3betting, but I do something more like the quasi range strategy vs certain opponents.

In the bolded part, shouldn't I at least have some value range to go along with that? I don't want to 4bet fold too frequently.

That post is awesome! Thanks.
Click to expand...

What I'm saying is that if you do think it's a good spot/opponent to 4-bet, mostly 4-bet bluff and keep your 4-bet value range really limited because you won't be exploited. As you move up stakes, you're going to have to widen this and stack off lighter, but for now, take advantage of it.
 
pocketehs

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Just look at common spots, say btn v bb where you open the button x% and bb 3 bets. then work out how wide you need to defend. then you can multiply that by your RFI so that you can see what % of all hands OTB you should defend vs a bb 3bet.

if you need more help just post an example w stats
 
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