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spiderman919
Rising Star
Bronze Level
I use PT and Poker Office. Not only do I find them incredibly valuable for bucketing opponents, but they also keep my head in the game. What i mean is I have PT set to 25 hands on a new opponent before it will show stats and I use that time to watch opponents and see if I can guess what percentage of time they put $ in the pot, % of time they raise pf, post-flop aggression %, etc. once the stats come up. Philthy is right - sometimes you make a read, with or without PT, and opp has a real hand. It happens. I have a hard time believing though that ROI does not improve with these tools if you are actually using them consistently
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ph_il
...
Silver Level
If PT is showing the opponent as a loose player, you should be more inclined to call their bets when you have a [good] hand since you will probably have the best hand most of the time. Keep in mind, though, that even loose-cannons will be dealt monster hands, will flop a monster, will have the nuts, etc from time-to-time. This is how they get paid off on their big hands. Just because you ran into a loose fish who had a strong hand shouldnt stop you from using PT. Use PT to play your opponent according what the stats are showing and dont base it on a single result.
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ph_il
...
Silver Level
Poker still is popular...
And to be honest, I dont use PT myself. I probably should and I do plan on getting it when I can afford it. So, now I rely on taking player notes and making my decisions based on what I observe. I fail to see how something like PT isnt worth using, especially when it can improve game.
And to be honest, I dont use PT myself. I probably should and I do plan on getting it when I can afford it. So, now I rely on taking player notes and making my decisions based on what I observe. I fail to see how something like PT isnt worth using, especially when it can improve game.
jph6696
Enthusiast
Silver Level
I have a feeling u just like to argue lol Joke,But I never said poker ain;t popular anymore, I said when It began to get popular, Remember ? Chris MoneyMaker won, All of a sudden every one thought and still think they can play , Just curious when did you pick up Poker(holdem) I can bet you u never even heard of it before money maker, No doubt you might have played 5 card< i guess i'm half old school, U think the ppl who have ten wsop poker bracelets, need to rely on and odds soft wear> Like I said it good for novice players, and the newbies to poker.I guess
WVHillbilly
Legend
Silver Level
Or if you play 3,4,6,10 tables at a time. Or if you don't remember every single person you've ever played with simply by screen name (no face to remember). Or if you just want every edge that's available to you. Or if you want to be able to replay hands or plug holes in your own game.
PT is a wonderful tool for online play. It's not a crutch for bad players. In fact, most bad players don't use it / never heard of it (one reason they stay bad players). No, you can't use it in a "real game", but then again I can't see you in an online game and knowing your stats is as close to a tell as I can generally get.
zachvac
Legend
Silver Level
PT simply stores the info that other people get at a table playing with other people. You can't block these stats, maybe you're thinking of another piece of software.
zachvac
Legend
Silver Level
The point of poker is getting information and making educated guesses as to the range of opponents' hands.
Say there is a theoretical player who literally plays every single hand and bets every single street. We pick up KQ. We are correct to call his preflop bet because we have a better than average hand. Flop then comes K52. We know he bets with any hand so we are correct in calling (let's ignore raising for now
). turn's an 8, rainbow now. We call again. River's a J. We again call because top pair is way better than the RANGE of hands he has. Meaning he would make this move with 23, Q3, etc. So we called him all the way and he flips over AA. Did we make a bad call?
I'm assuming you'd answer that with a yes, but I'd say no. From the information we had available, we had a better hand than his range. Even loose fishy players will pick up AA once in a while. You should still call him down 9 times out of 10. You got unlucky, over the long run if you call someone down that has shit the majority of the time, you win.
But I'll echo the same question asked above. What stats were you using that TOLD you your opponent was bluffing?
Say there is a theoretical player who literally plays every single hand and bets every single street. We pick up KQ. We are correct to call his preflop bet because we have a better than average hand. Flop then comes K52. We know he bets with any hand so we are correct in calling (let's ignore raising for now
). turn's an 8, rainbow now. We call again. River's a J. We again call because top pair is way better than the RANGE of hands he has. Meaning he would make this move with 23, Q3, etc. So we called him all the way and he flips over AA. Did we make a bad call?I'm assuming you'd answer that with a yes, but I'd say no. From the information we had available, we had a better hand than his range. Even loose fishy players will pick up AA once in a while. You should still call him down 9 times out of 10. You got unlucky, over the long run if you call someone down that has shit the majority of the time, you win.
But I'll echo the same question asked above. What stats were you using that TOLD you your opponent was bluffing?
Irexes
Legend
Silver Level
Using Pokertracker either to analyse hands or to get stats on opponents is invaluable. Poker is a game about information and there's no such thing as too much.
Even if you dispute it's value in play, surely it's value lies in analysing your play retrospectively and plugging holes?
Unless of course you are just trolling.
Egon Towst
Cardschat Elite
Silver Level
I concur.
I play more MTTs than ring games (as I know does Rex). In an MTT, one must be cautious about assigning too much weight to PT stats, since players commonly alter their style of play as the tournament progresses and the blinds rise. Stats based on earlier blind levels may no longer be relevant.
However, PT is an extremely useful tool for later analysis of one`s own play.
jph6696
Enthusiast
Silver Level
However,
Yes , I agree with you , Stats dont mean nothing to me online, I say this as a person who grinded the past 6 yrs barley working real jobs, I dont even like to put my own money on sites anymore, that why i try free roll from forums like this one, All I know is , I must be doing something right , cuz ive been at a hell of alot of final tables. Ppl are trying to make online poker to complicated, in actual fact , Its pretty simple , Patience is the biggest key)its the natural turn of cards, they will come) A Good fold is better than good hand because you have nothing to do with being dealt a royal on the flop, but you have something to do when folding pockets (ex.aces) just get em in there when you are positive you have the best, Keep it simple ppl There Is only 52 cards in a deck, Know your outs!
jph6696
Enthusiast
Silver Level
"But I'll echo the same question asked above. What stats were you using that TOLD you your opponent was bluffing? " by ZacVac
The fact the the dudes stats were horrible, and I was playing with him for a good while, I thought that was the point of Stats , to see whos who.Who the fish are! aka. the loose calling bluffing raises every hand type of players.And the tight players as well . It put me in a postion to call something I wouldnt normally call cuz he had worth less stats. Therefore it threw me off my true game! man you Try a make poker out like its rocket science, Trust me dude, its not that complicated .
The fact the the dudes stats were horrible, and I was playing with him for a good while, I thought that was the point of Stats , to see whos who.Who the fish are! aka. the loose calling bluffing raises every hand type of players.And the tight players as well . It put me in a postion to call something I wouldnt normally call cuz he had worth less stats. Therefore it threw me off my true game! man you Try a make poker out like its rocket science, Trust me dude, its not that complicated .
jph6696
Enthusiast
Silver Level
I should have said fish instead of bluffer
jph6696
Enthusiast
Silver Level
ANOTHER THING, Why do u think they are 100 % legal if they are so great, and they claim to make you rich (cuz they really dont help), they just make money from suckers who buy them, I was using one on my friends account, Thats how I got to use one
zachvac
Legend
Silver Level
Which stats? You didn't answer the question.
Irexes
Legend
Silver Level
Ok.
No need for the caps, quit the trolling and lose the attitude (calling people suckers) if you want responses.
Plenty of people who will be happy to discuss the pros and cons of various software but if you take an confrontational stance you are going to get one back.
Pokertracker allows you to analyse information which is stored on your hard drive as a normal part of the using the sites. Analysis of VPIP, PFR etc allow you to understand both your own game and when analysing other people's games to add this information to your decision making process.
If you don't see value in this then I can't help you.
But I suspect you are just trolling on the subject and sore because it didn't work for you given what sounds like a very limited trial.
No need for the caps, quit the trolling and lose the attitude (calling people suckers) if you want responses.
Plenty of people who will be happy to discuss the pros and cons of various software but if you take an confrontational stance you are going to get one back.
Pokertracker allows you to analyse information which is stored on your hard drive as a normal part of the using the sites. Analysis of VPIP, PFR etc allow you to understand both your own game and when analysing other people's games to add this information to your decision making process.
If you don't see value in this then I can't help you.
But I suspect you are just trolling on the subject and sore because it didn't work for you given what sounds like a very limited trial.
Dorkus Malorkus
HELLO INTERNET
Silver Level
Rex, I think you're wrong and OP is obv right.
There's blatantly no value in being able to identify leaks such as but not limited to not opening up in position or as blinds increase, losing money from playing too loosely in early position, being too loose or too tight preflop, seeing too many/too few showdowns, over/undervaluing one pair hands and thus losing money with them, misplaying and losing money with marginal hands, not stealing blinds often enough/stealing too much, not defending blinds often enough/defending too often, not 3-betting often enough/3-betting too often, not continuation betting often enough/c-betting too often, as well as being able to ascertain your winrate at-a-glance.
There's also no value in being able to obtain 'on-the-fly' reads from PAHUD while multitabling, which include all the aforementioned information but for your opponents.
OP is absolutely correct - obviously only a fool would buy PT imo!
There's blatantly no value in being able to identify leaks such as but not limited to not opening up in position or as blinds increase, losing money from playing too loosely in early position, being too loose or too tight preflop, seeing too many/too few showdowns, over/undervaluing one pair hands and thus losing money with them, misplaying and losing money with marginal hands, not stealing blinds often enough/stealing too much, not defending blinds often enough/defending too often, not 3-betting often enough/3-betting too often, not continuation betting often enough/c-betting too often, as well as being able to ascertain your winrate at-a-glance.
There's also no value in being able to obtain 'on-the-fly' reads from PAHUD while multitabling, which include all the aforementioned information but for your opponents.
OP is absolutely correct - obviously only a fool would buy PT imo!
Stick66
Legend
Silver Level
I wasn't aware PT had a "bluffing" stat. Many people who use PT don't have a clue how to use the stats until they take the time to learn how to interpret them. Sounds like you are in that boat.
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